Church Hill - Christian

Virginia Black History Archives

Church Hill Oral History Project

Transcript of Oral History Interview with James S. Christian, Jr., September 30, 1982.

This is a tape interview with Delegate James S. Christian, Jr. Delegate Christian has agreed to share his memories of life in Church Hill with us. This interview is being conducted September 30, 1982 in the office of Delegate Christian. The interview is being conducted by Akida T. Mensah.

I = Interviewer
N = Narrator

I - Delegate Christian, where were you born?

N - I was born in the 900 block North 30th Street in the heart of Church Hill in Richmond, Virginia, October 26, 1918.

I - Who were your parents?

N - My parents were Mr. James S. Christian, Sr., and my mother Mrs. Estelle Jacey Christian.

I - Do you remember anything about your grandparents at all on either side?

N - Yes I do. My grandparents on my mother's side survived much of my early life. My grandparents on my father's side demised early. Matter of fact I didn't know my grandfather on my father's side, but my grandmother was a part of our household for a few years until her death when I was a youngster.

I - Were they either, the grandmother on your father's side, was she a native of the area in which you grew up, or do you know?

N - No she wasn't a native of the area. She lived in Richmond for quite a while, but her home was in Gloucester County, Virginia and she moved here from Gloucester County into Richmond some years before I was born.

I - What was her name?

N - Mrs. Mattie Thompson Christian.

I - And you mentioned your maternal grandparents. What were their names?

N - Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Jasey.

I - ere they, to your knowledge, native to the area in which you grew up?

N - Fairly close. They were from Henrico County which is now being called Woodsville. That's the area that they were originally from. Prior to that my grandfather was a former resident of Powhatan County and my grandmother was a former resident of Chesterfield County.

I - I asked that question to try and establish about how long your family was resident of that area. How far back did they go?

N - Well my father was 77 years old when he passed about 8 years ago and he was born in the East End of Richmond. We used to call that area Bendix, but it is really the area going out the vicinity of Dobbs House Road between Laburnum now and Nine Mile Road generally in that area. out in the Creighton Road section.

I - What elementary school did you attend?

N - I attended George Mason Elementary School.

I - And this would have been about when?

N - 1924.

I - And who was the principal at that time, do you recall?

N - Mr. Morris was principal at that time. He vas a white principal, very strict principal as I remember. Strong disciplinarian, someone not to be played with.

I - Who were some of your teachers, early teachers? Were they also white, or..?

N - No, my teachers were black teachers. For example, Reverend J. Andrew Bowler was an outstanding teacher. He taught the 7th grade. This was J. Andrew Bowler, pastor at that time at Mount Olivet Baptist Church. A Mrs. Edmonds, Mrs. Sylvester Ellis, Mrs. Verna Stevens, Miss Ruby Ransome, who is passed now. Incidentally, Mrs. Ellis is still living. I'm not certain about Mrs. Edmonds, I think she is still living, but I'm not certain.

I - Were there male teachers that you recall?

N - Yes, well Reverend Bowler was a male teacher and Dr. Vernon Harris. Brother beg your pardon, I was thinking. There was a male shop teacher at that particular time, but I can't recall another male teacher at that particular time other than the shop teacher.

I - Who were some of your classmates?

N - Well, Mrs. Betty Wilkins was a classmate of mine. Mr. Lawrence Buchanan, he lived over on 28th Street. My classmates were all from the Church Hill area. Miss Thomas who lived on 30th Street, Mr. Ulis Shelton, lived on 31st Street, the Patterson family who lived across from us on 34th Street. I can't recall a lot but those are a few friends.

I - Could you describe the neighborhood during that particular time, your early years?

N - Yes, and during the early years many of the residents of the community worked at the tobacco factories down on Main Street, which was at that time in the City, one of the leading industries in the City, and of course did not put us in the high economic position because factory salaries were not that high. It was basically a hard working, church going neighborhood. All of Church Hill, as we perceived it then they have elaborated on it to say East End, and it is difficult to know where East End starts, opposed to Church Hill, but I'm looking at Church Hill in the area bordered by Nine Mile Road, over to Broad Street and from Mechanicsville Turnpike on out to Oakwood Avenue. At the time we perceived that area to be Church Hill. After that because of the migration of whites out of the neighborhood and the migration of blacks into the neighborhood, we begin to look at Church Hill, as far over then, to perhaps include 37, 38, those streets out just before you would leave the Chimborazo Area going into Fulton.

I - Your parents what kind of work did they do?

N - My father was a mail carrier, my mother was basically a housewife. She did a little of sewing for people occasionally. She would do a little housework a day or so, but basically she operated the home. My father worked as a letter carrier.

I - Being the son of a letter carrier during this period, is that afford you or the family an amount of prestige, do you think?

N - A little during that time. To land a job with federal government was sought by many people but awarded to only a few. So if You wanted to calculate that in prestige I would say to some extent, but the salaries were so low at that time. Even as a federal worker I remember hearing my father say that he worked in the Post Office for less than $1500.00 a month. And that certainly wasn't any money and he was talking about, times after, even after I had become a young man, he was still there and then salaries begin to go up and I think somewhere around 1942 when the War broke out, it was just ... I made a mistake. I didn't mean $1500.00 a month, I meant a year, but it was up right up around $6000.00, $6500.00 a year at that time, so it was not a high paying position but it was steady work and I suppose you could have looked upon it as a degree better than working in a factory. My father prior to go into the post office had worked in a place called Cedar Works which was down in the Fulton Area, and I think it was some sort of logging or tree cutting, I don't know what it was.

I - What about childhood activities? What kind of things did you do as a young boy growing up in the neighborhood? Were there organized sports or just how did you entertain yourself?

N - I had very little in the area of organized sports. I worked basically all the time when school was out. I had a little job delivering clothes for a cleaners on a bicycle.

I - Do you recall the name of the cleaners?

N - Yes. The Rose Cleaning Company, operated by a Mrs. Virginius Cheatham on 29th Street between P Street and Q Street.

I - Was this a black owned business?

N - A black owned business. During that time I learned a trade as a young man delivering clothes. I would get him to teach me things about the cleaning and pressing business and I became what I considered to be a very good person and I pressed clothes which elevated me into a little different category money-wise, because I could make a little more money pressing clothes. From his ship I was able to learn enough about the trade to go around to a larger shop which was Young's Cleaners over on 25th Street between Q and R. And I worked at Young's for during my high school years until felt the urge to go higher. And I was given a job at one of the leading cleaners in the City, Addison Cleaners who at that time was supposed to be the best cleaners we had in the City. And I worked at Addison Cleaners until I completed high school.

I - You mentioned high school. What high school did you attend?

N - Armstrong High School which at that time was at Prentiss and Leigh Streets.

I - And what was that like?

N - Well first thing I had a long distance to travel, all the way from at that period, we were living on 34th Street in the 1100 block. And we had to travel from 34th to Prentiss and Leigh Streets to go to high school `nd passed a couple of high schools in route. But this was the system at the time and I had to walk many times. My father trying to carry the load, my little earnings. I'd try to share with my brother and sister, my grandmother early on, I told you was at our home. She was sick. My aunt was there, she was sick, sickly, three children, my father and my mother so that was quite a sizeable family for one income. So I would try to, many times I would try to save by walking instead of riding the streetcars. We had streetcars at that time.

I - What streetcar would you catch, say leaving your home?

N - Well I could take the Oakwood Streetcar, which would go down to Venable Street to 18th, turn 18th and go out Main and back up 7th Street or 8th Street or one of the other and back on up Broad, and get off up there at Adam and Broad, or I could walk up 31st and P Street and take what was called then Broad and 25th Streetcar which would go across the viaduct and that would put us out on Broad Street or I could transfer at 7th Street and get the Clay Streetcar and et off at Adam and Clay.

I - The viaduct you mentioned, that was I take it there before you were born?

N - Oh yeah.

I - So you are in high school now and was it any particular person in high school that impressed you the most? I know that there were probably many who impressed you but who in particular?

N - I was particularly impressed with Mr. Ransome, who was one of my teachers. I've always been concerned about how a person looks. Neatness was one thing that I idolized, and Mr. Ransome was certainly a neat teacher. Then there were people like Mr. Bright who taught me. I thought he was a very good instructor and gave me many points to build on. Mrs. Fannie Richardson, certainly taught me how to study. We had to go to study hall every day and she was very good at molding you into a pattern of wanting to study rather than just sitting there because it was a study period. And there were several other teachers. Mr. Lindsay, for example, was an English instructor there. I thought very highly of him. Mrs. Green who was the wife of the deceased Dr. Green, the dentist, was our class sponsor. She was a very loveable person and very encouraging and she would take a lot of time and talk to you about your future. So for the most part I would say most of the teachers had something to offer in both elementary and high school.

I - So the pattern you set, I take it that you had set up earlier, working, did it continue?

N - It continued. That is why I did not involve myself with sports. I did not have time. As soon as school was out, out the back door to my job and that followed through until I entered the military in 1942. And prior to that I worked at the State Highway Department in the maintenance section. I had become a doorman and assistant manager at the Robinson Theatre. I was doorman the night that that theatre opened, over on 29th and Q Street that was the Robinson Theatre.

I - This would have been around, when?

N - In the '40's, in the early '40's, make it '40, '39 or '40.

I - Was that a big occasion, community-wise, the theatre opening?

N - Yes it was. It certainly was a help to the youngsters in the community. We sponsored a lot of talent shows. They would display their talents and we had prizes for them, for example. It became really a community interest especially on Saturday, so we had something going on for the youngsters all day on Saturday. It was a very nice looking theatre because it was new and the stage performances as many times from the Walker which had preceded to the new Bill Robinson Theatre. Following that I had a short time on the railroad as a mail porter, running from here to Raleigh, North Carolina and as a train porter, from here to Columbia, south Carolina, but that was a short stint. Because I volunteered for the air force, and it was a matter of waiting until they called me.

I -Was Bill Robinson present at the opening?

N -Yes he was. If you look today, in front of that building you'll see his footprint in that sidewalk. We left that section out until he arrived that night and they poured concrete in that night and he put his footprint in it. I think you'll see that today.

I - I can imagine that was exciting. Did you get to meet him, to the extent that you could characterize the type of person..?

N -Yes, I had met him before. I had met him at Armstrong. He came down on two occasions. I remember specifically one when they dedicated the traffic lights. He gave the lights up Adam and Leigh, but prior to that we had a show in school and he was here, and he was teaching a contingency of that show how to tap dance, and I happen to have been in the tap dancing group. So I did get a chance to meet him and specifically talk to him.

I - How did he impress you as a person?

N - A man very much interested in the community and the people. Those days we did not have as much emphasis on the black perspective as we have now, but I was, generally he was a kind hearted individual who had a great deal of interest in the people.

I - You mentioned going into the air force, or signing up for the air force. This was after high school and a series of jobs. What motivated you to go into the air force?

N - That is a good question. I would like to answer that question. When I was a youngster I was standing on my side porch, well my father's side porch, watching stunt pilots. They use to perform quite often at that time, right out in some wide area in the City, and I watched them as they looped, snapped rolled and slow rolled and all this sort of thing, and I said, oh gee I would like to do something like that, wonder will I ever be able to do that. And it stayed in my mind, not necessarily that I wanted to be a fighter pilot, or any other pilot, I just wanted to fly an airplane. It was fascinating and it stayed with me, so when the War came, I decided that I would volunteer for the air force, which I did. The situation was in those times, I wasn't called early, but neither could they draft me. Because I had volunteered, so I stayed here longer than most of the other army contingency, and finally they did call me to take the examination at Langley Field and so forth, and put me on the waiting list again. By my father working in the capitol square, arranged an interview between the Adjutant General and myself, the State Adjutant General and I met him and told him how long I had been on the list. Nobody would call me. I was gone about a week and a half after the interview, to Tuskegee. I was at Tuskegee Air Base, Army Air Base and was a member of the second class of Black Pilots and then I moved right on from there to other assignments and I wound up as a observation pilot, over in Italy during World War II. That is all I did during World War 11.

I - What kind of feelings did you have, you are a young black man in the United States Army, a segregated army, and you are a pilot or trained to be a pilot. What kind of feelings of that?

N - Well let start to put it in the proper perspective. First I had come from a southern town. Segregation was not anything new to me. That is all I was used to as a matter of fact, so it would not have been as hard for me to adjust as maybe a person who lived farther north. However, most of the pilots were from the north in the first contingency most of them were pilots of the National Guards or Reserve Units, or some of them were officers in the Guard, or from units in New York, Chicago. There were on active duty, but they were elite units, and they had a lot of experience that I did not have. But I tried to learn from them what to expect in the army and whenever a racial battle existed, I would let them take it. I knew we had, I knew what we had done but I was more acclimated to this particular situation than many of them were, they were frustrated. But being a young black pilot, we had insults, sometime we would land on fields down in Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi. The operators of the airports did not want to give us gas for our plane, or they would accuse us of stealing the plane, most any insult, well, and that carried on for quite awhile. Until actually, until we went overseas.

I - And being in Italy, what was that like? The war?

N - Being in Italy, we fought the War. We had very little discrimination from the natives, but we still suffered discrimination at the hands of American soldiers who were fighting right alongside but that did not last too long. Well I think some of the measures of President Roosevelt and Truman sort of straightened that situation out. But we were officers overseas and we had problems with officers and all of us were officers. But we worked and we finally got them straightened out to the extent that we could live together and eat together and socialize together and whatever you normally do in the military.

I - After the War, what did you do? After the Second World War?

N - After the Second World War I entered Post Office for a couple of weeks. You see my father was in the Post Office and advised me to come in while trying to get myself together. Why not come on, we got a little extra work you can do around the Post Office. And I retired from the Post Office.

I stayed there twenty five years. And adding my military retirement I was able to retire full time. But in the meantime two years later, I was back in the military. While I was in the Post Office they had given me a leave of absence. During the Korean conflict I left here, traveled to Massachusetts with a Reserve Unit from Richmond. Was sent to intelligence school in Kansas, transferred to New York and became battery commander of an anti-aircraft unit at Ft. Tyler, New York. So I went from one area to the other, flying planes on the one hand and learning how to shoot them down on the other.

I - What was that experience like?

N - Well it was very rewarding because I had control of some two hundred and some men and it gave me an opportunity to see if I could command men or troops and have their respect. And I learned the one of the fundamental was really to be interested in the man first and then he would produce, and I carried that through all my life. Since then, I feel that if you interested in people, you do not have to worry about them producing for you. But let's get them satisfied first, that's basically my philosophy and I learned that working with those men at that particular time.

I - After the Korean conflict, I take it you returned to Richmond?

N - Yes, I did.

I - Were you then living in Church Hill, still?

N - No. After World War II, I moved over here at Sixth and Leigh. There were some apartments right on the corner and I moved to Sixth and Leigh. I married a young lady from South Richmond, and we decided that neutral ground would be on Leigh Street between Church Hill and South Richmond.

I - And her name?

N - Her name was Margaret Olphin Christian. Olphin was her family name.

I - Do you have any children?

N - No. We did not have children.

I - So you not living in Church Hill. Did you have other than family ties? Did you have any other ties still in Church Hill?

N - I am a member of Fourth Baptist Church. I represented the entire City at large as one of its five delegates, however, my focus has always been on Church Hill since I've been a member of the House of Delegates. Previously I was a member, chairman of the City Planning Commission and I was able to address some of the concerns of Church Hill as a member of the Planning Commission. So I've always had a deep interest in Church Hill and continue today to have the same thing.

I - Tell us something more about your church and I'm asking this question. It has been designated a historic landmark in Church Hill and there is a list of outstanding ministers who lead the church. Could you tell us some more about it? Your involvement with the church?

N - Yes. Fourth Baptist Church at 2000 P Street in Church Hill has been, for as long as I can remember, one of the leading churches in Church Hill. All the pastors that I remember were great members in the clergy, as well as educated. Surprisingly I can't think of one that was not an educator, or was not surrounded by a family of educators. I remember one Rev. Williams, who was a pastor for a short time. I don't know of, if he was an educator, but his family, his children were teachers, so forth. So it seems if the great church for attracting leadership of responsive to an education. Our present pastor, Dr. Robert L. Taylor, I think we could say very well that he has documented his interest in education. I believe that the two things that emanated from our church, basically was to own property and become educated. And that was instilled in me, my father was buying his home and he finally owned it and I remember his words to me the day I first started buying my home. He said, "It's looks like a long time now, but you will eventually get it. You will eventually get it." And so it did come about. One day I did pay off the last note. It was mine. But those two principles were stressed as much in church as any place else and as I grew up my father was a deacon at the church. My mother was chairperson at the Ladies Usher Board so they were in church. They made us go to church. I wound up teaching the Men's Bible Class in church for 15 or 20 years. So much so that when I went to the army the first time they did not bother to get a teacher. I was teaching them there. They did not get a teacher and I came back and I taught for awhile and when I went away to the Korean conflict, then I suggested that they get somebody else to teach. But our family was a church going family. We did not have a too many educators in our family. Certainly I was not. Neither was my brother or my sister or my mother or father for that matter. But the gentleman that we buried yesterday had a great impact upon me. Mr. Oscar A. Morton who lived right around the corner and Mr. Morton encouraged me to go to college. Then there was Mr. Robert James who lived across the street, who was at that time registrar at Virginia Union. He encouraged me to continue on with my education. But these people were members of my church, so you see these educators used their educational skills and ability to help persuade those of us even in church to continue their education. And I hope I am saying this so that you can see what I mean. The church then was a background, not only for religious matters, but also for educational matters.

I - So, your life has been shaped as much by your religious affiliation, your religious training, as anything else.

N - Very definitely, yes indeed.

I - You mentioned Mr. Morton, a beloved man, in Church Hill and throughout the City, for many years. Are there others, the point I am getting at, heroes, who were your heroes?

N - I guess you have to try to break that down into areas. I would say for a well rounded individual encompassing both the religious perspective as well as he educational perspective, I think I would look at Mr. Morton, but have traveled half way around the world, I have military idols that I thought a lot of. Once I was a pilot for General Marshall overseas, after the War was over, he wanted to go to France and Germany and these places and I thought that he was a top General, for an example. So this is an area. I would single him out as one of my idols, or one of my heroes in that particular area. I could think of people who achieved for an example, in business. I have a cousin who operated Eggleston Hotel (Neblett Eggleston) and I would sit and wonder how would he do so much, rear a family, put them all through school, and at the time that I first remember becoming acquainted with him, he was working down Richmond Hotels, and when I say that I'm sure you realize that the job was not as manager. So I would look upon him as a man who could practically take nothing and do wonders with it. So he has always been one of my idols. Although he didn't live in Church Hill he was one of my idols. Church Hill was not a great business oriented community. We had a little patch of business here, or a patch there, but where I lived on 34th Street there was nothing but little corner Jew stores. Course I remember when A&P was there, 34th and Q Street. Then it moved to Silverman's Market, and then several other concerns but that's all that has ever been there. Was a little store on that corner and a little restaurant across the street, and I remember when they built the area between Q Street and P Street going along Oakwood Avenue. I remember when that was built, so it's never been a great business oriented, now it's becoming a business oriented, all along Nine Mile Road. It used to be bushes and fields all out there when I was a kid. No Creighton Court, nothing of that nature.

I - What inspired you to go into politics?

N - I was asked. I wasn't really inspired. I was just asked to take the banner on behalf of the black community and run for the House of Delegates. I had no information at all on becoming a member of the House of Delegates. But on one Saturday afternoon while sitting in my office doing some income taxes, telephone call came from some prominent black citizens asking me did I have a few minutes to meet with them. And they said let's bring it right to the point, we want you to run for the House of Delegates. It was quite shocking to me. I knew very little about the House of Delegates or anything how to mount a campaign or anything else, but the first time that I ran, 1975, 1 lost by a very narrow margin, but I lost. Well, at that time matters of my being elected were placed in the hands of people who asked me to run so I do not like to do anything and lose. So next time I took my own campaign over and I been re-elected every since. But it was primarily because I was asked to run, to carry the ballot, at that particular election.

I - Your district includes Church Hill?

N - It includes a part of Church Hill

I - And that district is that?

N- Seventh.

I - What part of Church Hill would that include?

N - Basically north of P Street, all the way to the Henrico line. I do have some extended areas, down round the jail and on up through Eastview. All of that's in my district but basic line you could say north of P Street. And Delegate Lambert has basic south of P Street.

I - That is quite interesting.

N - Then I have all of Fulton and of course, I have four districts on Southside. 801, 802, 805, 806, 907 and part of 904. Those encirclements in green represent my district, so you see, basically I am on the east side and South till to the east.

I - Do you have any visions of Church Hill in terms of its future and if so, would you care to share them?

N - Yes. I have visions, I certainly do, as I travel through Church Hill now. It's very enlightening to me to see the development that is taking place along 28th Street, 29th Street, 30th Street and I hope that that will continue, that type of development will continue for a long time. The old landlord situation over in Church Hill was bad. The community, many blighted areas were infested with rats and so forth. I can remember when one area hat I'm particularly concerned about was directly cross the street in front of George Mason School on the 28th Street side, a little row of houses over there. You see rats running across the street, as big as cats almost. But I think the redevelopment that is occurring now will certainly eliminate that sort of thing and if it continues Church Hill will be one of the nicest places in the City of Richmond. With the effort being made over the southern end, over around the church, St. John's Church, that is developing very nicely and we are moving up in the area of 28th and P and 0 and M and N. So the next move, I suppose would be to try to redevelop that area between Broad Street and perhaps M Street, for an example. You can move up that area, I think we would have a good program going.

I - And I think that has started, already. Historic Richmond has purchased some houses in that very area and are selling them. Stipulation that they be restored, so it seems that Church Hill is on its way back, I am happy to see in that sense. Is there a philosophy that you subscribe to?

N - Yes, a general philosophy? Generally I believe in this, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is generally what I believe. I get into odds with people because of that philosophy sometimes, but it's very easy for me to put myself in the other man's position before I make a decision. And I particularly like to do that. It helps me in my decisions. There are so many people who are not knowledgeable about how to do things, where to seek help, who to call upon, what direction should they go in, young and old. I've talked with a lot of people and here is a youngster who is trying to make it, he can't find a job, to help him, where can he get help. I think back at the time of when I was going to college and I tried to get a job in the City, but at that particular time, out of town students were favored by the University. If you lived in the City you had to go out on your own to find a job and I think about those sort of things. I feel that if we put ourselves in the other man's position, that we can come up with some better answers. This knocks out a lot of selfishness and when you thinking about the other man you are not hardly thinking about yourself. But if you forget his plight and think of only of what it means to me, what I can get out of it, I don't even know what he is talking about. If we subscribe to that type of philosophy I don't think we are helping in the community the way we should. That's basically my philosophy.

I - Well, sir I would certainly like to thank you for allowing this time to interview you and to share your memories and experiences and I am sure that others will find it as fascinating as I have, the time I've spent talking to you. Are there any other things that to you are important, that you would like to express at this point?

N - Well I'd like to just summarize some of my activities now. I am a member of the Capital Regions Airport Commission, we have eight members who operate Byrd Airport from the land side perspective and I am one of the eight members. I am a member of Richmond Renaissance, I am on the Board of Directors. I am a member of the State Legislature and I serve on some important committees in the Legislature. I am on Finance, on Corporation., Insurance, and Banking, Nominations and Confirmations, and Natural Resources. I formerly was a member of General Laws. Those are very important and it certainly broadens your scope of the business community, tax payers' perspectives, financing in particular, because you have to be awfully careful for raising people's taxes. But that's what we have to do on Finance. We have to get the money from some place to run the State government. So it has been very helpful to me in these capacities, serving on those important committees. I do remember other things in the community. I do belong to most of the organizations, groups, Crusade, NAACP, and a member of Club 533. I do a lot of attending the meetings of City groups speaking, what have you to try to encourage them in the area of voter registration and voter participation. So basically this is my life, everyday. As you see, also I operate Christian Business Services, which is an accountant business.

I - Well again sir I want to thank you for the time and the interest that you have shown and in taking your time to allow me to tape you.

N - Well it was my pleasure and I wish you much success in the community and if I can help you in any other way, I'd be happy to do it.

I - Thank you.

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