Transcript of interview with Mrs. Hattie Finley, August 25, 1982. The interview was conducted by Akida T. Mensah.
Tape interview with Mrs Hattie Finley, 513 N. 29th Street, Richmond, VA. Mrs. Finley has lived in the Church Hill area for a considerable number of years. She had agreed to share her remembrances with us about life in Church Hill during the early 1900's. This interview is being conducted August 25, 1982 in the home of Mrs. Finley.
I - Mrs. Finley were you born in Richmond?
N - No.
I - You were not born in Richmond?
N - No.
I - Where were you born?
N - I's born in Richmond County, N.C.
I - Richmond County, N.C.?
N - Yes.
I - When did you come to Richmond?
N - December 9, 1911.
I - And how did you come to Richmond?
N - On a Seaboard Airline Railway.
I - And that, did the train stop at Main Street Station?
N - Main Street Station, was the place the train stopped at that time.
I - How did Main Street look?
N - It was a lovely station, very well depot, it was nice looking.
I - The streets for example, were they paved on Main Street, bricks or concrete, and that sort.
N - Yea, they were paved.
I - And I take the street car was running at that time?
N - Yes.
I - What was your impression, you are a young person coming into Richmond for the first time, getting off at Main Street Station and I take it that the 17th Street Market was there. How did you feel about that, were you excited?
N - Yea, I thought it was very nice. I was really amazed at what I saw when I got off the train.
I - After coming to Richmond, where did you live?
N - 700 block N. 30th Street.
I - What kind of neighborhood was that? Were there many other children for example?
N - Not too many, not too many other children.
I - And you moved into the 700 block N. 30th Street and you were about how old?
N - I guess I was 'round 'bout 12, or something like that.
I - And this was 1911, so you were born, say around 1899 or there about.
N - 1893.
I - And what month were you born?
N -November 15th.
I - Being a child, by what you said you were of school age, how was it going to school.
N -Oh it was different that it is now, but it was okay. Much different very simple.
I - And what school did you go to?
N - George Mason.
I - You went to George Mason.
N -But I can't ....
I - And did you know or did you get to meet a lot, most of the people I talked to went to George Mason during that period mentioned. Rev. Bowler, how did he impress you? What kind of man did you see him as?
N - He impressed me very deeply because he was a dedicated teacher and he was a good one. Very dedicated to his teaching and his students.
I - Did he have any particular kinds of things that stuck out in your mind. Did he do any things differently from other teachers or what. Was he real strict or just how?
N - Yea he was very dedicated to explaining to the children how to conduct themselves. Stay out of mischief and trouble and things like that.
I - And just before we started this interview you were saying something about he would stand out and look at his watch ....
N - When time was getting short, he'd stand on the corner and beck his hand for the children to run, hurry up and come on to school.
I - Mrs. Finley we talked about your going to school and about your being at George Mason and we talked some about Rev. Bowler who taught there, tell me something about your church activities, what church did you belong to?
N - Good Sheppard Baptist.
I - You belonged to Good Sheppard Baptist Church.
N - Yes.
I - And about when did you join that church?
N - In 1922.
I - And where was the church located at that time you joined.
N - 32nd and "O" Street.
I - Could you go on to describe some of your work in the church and who the minister was and that kind of thing?
N - My minister was Andrew J. Smith, he was the pastor and I worked in the church selling, and I sang on the choir for a number of years and we did other work like taking care of looking out for the church.
I - And the church moved, I understand from 32nd Street to where?
N - 28th and R.
I - And you worked there. I can remember in the 40's they would have gospel groups coming in on the 2nd Sunday and singing and afterward they would have fried chicken and so on to raise money for the building fund. And you served in that church, that building and now I understand you are, have built a newer building and that also is located?
N - 28th and R.
I - And your present pastor?
N - Dr. Paul Nichols.
I - To sort of change the subject somewhat, earlier in our conversation you mentioned remembering Richmond going dry, could you tell me something about that.
N - Yea, I remember I think it was 1916, Richmond went dry, 12:01 at night, and they had a big celebration cause all the whistles and things were blowing at that time.
- And by Richmond going dry you mean that they ...
N - Didn't have any more bars on the corners.
I - So legally you couldn't sell liquor openly.
N - Right, that's right.
I - How did that seemly affect the people, what I'm saying the people generally in the neighborhood, did they seem to be angry about it or did they sort of accept it or just how did that ... ?
N - Terribly upset. They wanted bars and they wasn't satisfied at all.
I - And of course this brought in the prohibition era and they talk a lot about speak easies and bootlegging and all that sort. Around 1925, they was a cave in a train tunnel that went under Jefferson Park do you remember that?
N - Yea, I was there, went on the scene. Tunnel caved in and it caught the engine and all the workmen underneath there. They couldn't get nobody out. Terrible excitement. I went down.
I - And was it sort of like an all night, kind of people sort of standing around, kind of like an all night vigil.
N - I kind of think so because it was a huge crowd, it was terrible. Awful excitement. People stayed thinking it was going to release so they could get the people, but they couldn't get none, the engine, the whole engine up underneath there.
I - I understand people from all over the city was down there, sort of hoping that they would rescue them. You've lived in the 700 block of 30th Street and there was a Doctor Tancil who lived in the 600 block and I mention him because his name is associated, I believe he is the President of the Nickel Saving Bank which was located at 29th and Leigh. Did you know him at all?
N - Knew him personally, he was my doctor.
I - And what kind of person was he, was he a tall man, a short man?
N - He was short and stout. Very lively.
I - And he was your doctor, you say. Was he your doctor for long?
N - Yes.
I - In that block, and one of the reasons I brought up his name, the block that the bank was located, last located in 29th and Leigh, was a row of houses, the 2800 block of Leigh Street where some black families lived. And several people that I have talked to describe it as a very exclusive neighborhood and most of the black people, at least sort of looked up to those families. Did you know any of those people who lived in that area?
N - Yea, I knew all of them that lived in that block, it was very exclusive. The Jacksons lived in there, Warren Jackson, but it was about the prettiest block on Church Hill, well kept.
I - I think earlier you mentioned some Flemings?
N - Flemings, lived in there too. A Herbert Fleming was his name. His mother was a great Richmond daughters, I remember that.
I - You said Richmond daughters.
N - Uh uh.
I - And this was a society. And they lived at 2800 right on the corner and then you say it was the Jackson's.
N - Right next to them.
I - And the next house would have been ....
N - I forgot, just can't remember who lived there.
I - But at any rate they kept their property up and kept things clean.
N - Very much so. Nicest block on Church Hill.
I - And I think one of them was a mail carrier or did some kind of work with the postal service.
N - Warren Jackson. He was a carrier.
I - And then I believe that there was a Mr. Barrett who lived in that block who was also a carrier and I think some have said that he might have been one of the first blacks to carry mail.
N - Yea he was. I think he used a vehicle to deliver mail.
I - What kind of vehicle?
N - A wagon I think, used to carry way back there.
I - So then you lived at in the 700 block of 30th Street when did you move in this block?
N - I moved in this block, July 11, 1931.
I - And I take it by then you were married.
N - Oh yea.
I - And what was that like? How did you feel about this area at the time that you moved?
N - Oh I felt find about it, I wanted it because the streets had paved streets and I liked it very much, that's why I wanted to move here.
I - Well you said that the streets here were paved, then they weren't paved on 31st? And so it was sort of like moving up in the world. And Mr. Finley, what was he like, and what kinds of things did he do?
N - Well he had a confectionery once, combined, and he ran a club and he had a laboratory when he first came out of the war.
I - And you said the war, you mean which ....
N - He was in War I.
I - And the laboratory sounds interesting, what kinds of things did he ... ?
N - All kinds of things. He did perfumes and different most anything get out of a drugstore.
I - Your husband's laboratory and you were saying he made perfumes and different things that you would get normally in a drug store. And he sold to neighbors and to stores. Was this something he learned to do in service or how did this come about?
N - I think he taken it up.
I - And I take it he enjoyed this kind of work.
N - He liked that.
I - Do you have any children?
N - Foster children. I didn't have any of my own.
I - And what about them. What kinds of things did they do?
N - They are very smart. One of them he did four years at Virginia State, he is a geologist, the youngest kid. And he is with Sun Oil Company of Houston, Texas.
I - And his name?
N - Cornellius Robinson. Three little brothers, I reared them all here.
I - I can imagine that was a sort of a thrilling experience for you to rear a child and have him come out to be successful.
N - Yes it was. And the other brother he was very smart. He is a shipping clerk at Richmond Foundry, been promoted now, Evanual Robinson, I reared him, I'm proud of 'em.
I - So you've been quite busy in the rearing children and your church work and that. In shopping, during your living in this area and I guess we'll talk about more when you were married because that probably when you would have done most of your shopping. Were there many places to go around here to shop. For example, if you wanted to buy a dress, could you do it over here on Church Hill or would you have to go somewhere else?
N - You'd have to go to town. Nothing over here like that for... You had to go up Broad Street, places like that to shop.
I - And how would you get up to Broad Street?
N - We would catch the Street Car. But then the buses started to running, use the bus.
I - You mentioned the Street car and I am sort of interested in those which street car, for example, if you had to leave here, which street car catch to go uptown?
N - Broad and 25th.
I - And that would carry you ....
N - Up Broad Street.
I - Straight up Broad. And you could do your shopping and coming back would it still be the Broad?
N - Catch the street car.
I - And what about downtown area, markets and so on. Did you have to go down there or did they have...?
N - Clay Street car would carry you downtown to the market. That's the car we used to go downtown, Clay Street.
I - In shopping downtown, for example, did you go to, for example, now Miller and Rhoads, Thalhimers, and those stores or were there different other stores. I know that Miller and Rhoads and Thalhimers have been there a long time, but were there other stores that you shopped at on Broad.
N - Kaufman's Store was one and there was quite a few. Cohen was one. Cohen's drug store.
I - We've talked for a while and we haven't, except for Rev. Bowler and Dr. Tancil, we haven't talked about any other people who might have been looked up to in the community. Were there others that come to mind?
N - Yea, well Dr. Brown was one and very much very so Rev. Evans Payne was another one. Boys would be on the corner playing marbles doing anything, they see him coming, they'd disappear. Things of that type.
I - He was highly respected. This was Rev. Payne.
N - That's right.
I - And he was pastor of Forth Baptist. This Doctor Brown, which Brown was that. Was that Dr. Felix Brown?
N - Naw, that wasn't Felix Brown.
I - There was a Doctor Griffin and did you know him at all.
N - I knew him very well.
I - And what kind of person was he.
N - Very nice, very nice.
I - The parks and things, for example, Chimarizo Park and there's a Libby Hill Park, say when you were going out on a Sunday afternoon or that kind of thing, did you ever go to those parks?
N - Very seldom did you go to parks then, cause if you went to any it was Liberty Hill Park, and that won't too often.
I - And well what kinds of things did you do, say like on a Sunday afternoon or whenever you decided you were going to take some leisure time off. Did you?
N - Well one thing about it children didn't get out much like they do now. They stayed around the house, played with other little friend children, you know they didn't get out in public places much. They didn't do much of that then. You practically always most knew where your kid was at, see.
I - What about parades and things? Did they have many during ... ?
N - Not too many parades, not too many, naw. I can't remember too many parades.
I - There was a group Rose Sharon Band that, I think, played at funerals. Did you ever go to any of those? I understand children would follow them down Oakwood Avenue and back.
N - I used to be in the gang going to Oakwood Avenue. That was the Rose Sharon Band, they would be playing hymns, but they would be proceeding to the Evergreen cemetery.
I - And they would play for these funerals and then they would come back and play? Was the music different when they came back, did they play hymns going down and sort of happy music coming back or did they play hymns both ways?
N - Practically both ways. They didn't play no songs. Both ways was hymns.
I - I was wondering whether they, you know like in New Orleans they used to say the old jazz bands would play ...
N - Yea, that's right, but they didn't do it, they played pieces like Nearer My God To Thee, you know hymns like. Just practically the same thing.
I - There was I think during the 20's, could have been the 30's boat rides up and down the James River. Did you get on any of the boats?
N - Yea, I've been down on them.
I - Can you remember the names of any of the boats?
N - We suppose to have went to Dutch Caps, call them Dutch Caps and then turn around and come back to Richmond,
I - And where would you get on the boat then?
N - Down here on Main Street at the Boat dock.
I - And you would ride down, did they have bands or things on the boat, so people would sort of get on for the view.
N - Dance.
I - And dance? Was this mostly like a weekend or did they do it during the week or holidays or how did they work it?
N - Kind of like a weekend like. Sometimes they would be on holidays but it was page more than like weekend, they would go down the river. It was very nice.
I - I can remember going on one, and this was, it had to be in the 40's, and I think the boat was called the Robert E. Lee, and I guess it apparently went down to Dutch Gap or somewhere like that and came back, my parents carried me I wasn't quite a teenager, but I brought that up because they are trying, a group called Richmond on the James is trying to bring that kind of thing back, the boat rides.
N - I wish they would, it would be nice.
I - Particularly on the weekend or Sunday afternoon, to go down the river.
N - It would be nice.
I - Were there other kinds of things that we might have overlooked in talking similar to the boat rides or and event of some kind that sort of stands out in your mind.
N - I don't think I can really come up to think of nothing else that ...
I - Did the schools have any special kinds of plays, say every year or did the churches put on any special kinds of functions.
N - Well they used to have what you called the Queen of Mays, back in those days, but now that to make money for the churches, but they done away with that and I don't know too much else they was that they had that they done away with.
I - What about sports events, were interested in athletics at all like baseball, football or any of those things.
N - Naw, I liked horse racing, I liked to see the horses run. That's the only sport I had.
I - Did you go to many?
N - Not too many, but I liked that kind of sport.
I - And where would you have to go?
N - Baltimore.
I - Was it Laurel?
N - Go up there and see the horses run.
I - Can you remember any of the horses of that day?
N - I can't I knew a lot of names, but I can't think of them now. I think of it when I don't want to. I used to go to the Fair Grounds, they used to have races out the Fair Grounds, see 'em run, I just like horse racing.
I - This was Strawberry Hill?
N - Uh uh, my husband he liked baseball. I don't know ball, I don't know baseball.
I - When you went to Baltimore to the races, how did you go, by train or by bus?
N - Train, sometimes we drive.
I - What about excursions?
N - We used to have quite a few of them, used to run to West Point, Buckroe Beach on the train. Yea, I used to go to West Point on excursions, Buckroe too. They don't have them anymore.
I - When you went to West Point, what did you do there?
N - We'd go down there to eat crabs, to go dance, dance hall.
I - I have heard of the excursions going to Buckroe and that but I was wondering what kinds of things went on at West Point?
N - It's been a long time since one has been to West Point, won't yesterday. Long time.
I - Well I certainly would like to thank you, the time you have spent in sharing your remembrances of the Church Hill and I am sure this will help us a great deal understanding what life was like in Church Hill, from 1911 coming forward and if we have other questions of you we will contact you. Thanks again.
N - I hope I have benefited ya'll some.
Questions
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