Church Hill - Dr. Diane Harris

Virginia Black History Archives

Church Hill Oral History Project

Transcript of interview with Dr. Diane Harris, September 27, 1982. Interview conducted by Akida T. Mensah.

This is a tape interview with Dr. Diane Harris. Dr. Harris is a practicing dentist in the Church Hill area. She is the wife of the former mayor Henry Marsh, and the daughter of the late Dr. Vernon J. Harris, a practicing physician in the Church Hill area for many years. Dr. Harris has agreed to share her memories of Church Hill with us and to give us some insight to the man who was her father.

I = Interviewer

N = Narrator

I - Dr. Harris, when were you born?

N - I never put it up, down, or out.

I - You never put it up, down, or out. But you were born in Richmond?

N - Right.

I - Okay, where were you born?

N - On Church Hill. The fact is, I was born at home.

I - You were born at home. And where was home?

N - On Q Street. 1105 N. 29th Street.

I - And who were your parents?

N - Dr. and Mrs. Vernon J. Harris, Jr. I was actually born upstairs over a drug store.

I - And the name of the drugstore?

N - I think it was Robinson's Drug.

I - And you spent your formative years in that location?

N - That's right.

I- What school did you attend?

N - I attended George Mason Elementary.

I - George Mason Elementary. Who was principal when you were there?

N - A Mr. Joseph Brite.

I - Joseph Brite. So he was there at the time you were there. And who were some of your teachers?

N - Oh some of them are still living. A Mrs. Wooldridge, Mrs. Ellis, Mrs.Malloy, a Mrs. Stevens. I remember them very well.

I - And what about classmates. Who were some of your classmates?

N - Some of them I only remember by first names. I do remember an Evelyn Brooks who impressed me. A Mildred Woodson, these were people who were all in my neighborhood. And the Forbes family which still resides basically in the same place. Joyce Binga. The Turners who still live in the same spot. Most of these people, the families, still live in the same area.

I - And you mentioned that these were your neighbors, so I take it that when you were going to school the school was sort of like a neighborhood school?

N - Yes it was.

I - Most of the people who went there were from Church Hill.

N - Right.

I - What was that like? How would you characterize that period in your life, the social life, the recreational life? Just what kinds of things did you do?

N - Recreation wise, well, right across from my home was the Bill Robinson Theatre, that was every Saturday, all day Saturday. You went in in the morning and you came out in the evening and you saw the same movie several times over. Everything more or less centered around school. My playmates, they used to come into my backyard and on the playground, the same people I named and, I don't know.

I - What about church activities? Were you a member of a neighborhood church?

N - No I wasn't because of my mother's religion. She was an Episcopalian and the nearest Episcopalian Church was in what I call the central area now. Actually it's Jackson Ward. It was St. Phillips and it was on Leigh Street, I believe. It has moved since. My father was Baptist and he did on occasion attend Fourth Baptist.

I - So, your social life centered around going to the movie, playing on the playground, and by the playground I take it you meant George Mason Playground ... ?

N - George Mason Playground. And as I got older, of course Armstrong. That was after Armstrong moved to Church Hill. -3-- This period in your life, who were some of the leaders, in your mind, of the community?

N - The Manning family. I remember the Mannings were also very close to us.Of course Mr. Bright had an influence on us. As a child, I can't remember names that well.

I - Dr. Harris, what were some of the institutions, and by institutions I mean like stores and so on, `round in your childhood?

N - Well, I remember vaguely, Springer's Drugstore which was down on Venable Street. It was not black owned, it was white owned, but that was a very important institution in our lives. The family was very excited when we had our first black jewelry store on 25th and Q Street. The Clark family, and we went there with some frequency. Of course, the Manning Funeral Home was an institution and although it wasn't an institution as such but I remember the PTA meetings very vividly because my mother was very faithful to going to the PTA meetings; they were instrumental in our lives. Of course, the Robinson Theatre, Bill Robinson Theatre, and the drugstore, Robinson's Drugstore over which I was born and where we lived in our formative years was very instrumental too; a Dr. Turner and a Dr. Johnson ran it. And family relationships were very close.

I - You mentioned Springer's, and I can remember vaguely Springer's Drugstore. Who owned Springer's, do you know?

N - I'm not positive, but I believe who is now Senator Wiley, but I'm not positive about that.

I - So this would be Senator Ed Wiley.

N - Yes. Another institution, so to speak, was Copeland's Grocery Store. It was a small corner store, but we got quite a few of our groceries there. They didn't have the big supermarkets like they have now.

I - And there was a Lou's Market at one time.

N - Oh yes, Lou's. Lou is an institution in himself, and he was very fair. Both he and Mr. Copeland were very fair to members of our race. The foods were always very fresh and the prices were always good and credit was also good.

I - Who would you say in your formative years had the greatest influence on your life?

N - My mother and my father. In different ways. I remember my mother having a great passion for people in one sense in that she did things quietly that some possibly have forgotten, some have not because they come back and mention it. And since, I remember somewhere in the week she used to go from house to house collecting, picking up blind people and taking them to someplace where they get training, and my sister and I thought this was fun because we were young and didn't understand the full meaning of it. But they used to put their hands on one another's shoulders and we did the same,and we used to play in some little corner with whatever books or toys we had while they did their training and then she'd brought them back home. She was also very influential in the YWCA, which was at that time on Leigh Street, I believe and she always attended PTA meetings and was quite vocal there. My father, on the other hand, was a man of great compassion. He did a great deal of service for free and if people got an opportunity to pay him, fine, and if they didn't that was all right too. Sometimes we were paid with food and chickens and vegetables and that kind of thing. But he got up all hours of the night to deliver babies, even in the country and he treated families not just individuals, and if they could not come in, of course he made house calls to his last day. Fact is, as the expression goes, "died in his boots" and he worked a seven day week and e never took holidays. His office was always open.

I - And you mentioned institutions, house calls is an institution that has gone down the drain.

N - That's right. I think one of the, I spent a lot of my summers riding with him on his house calls, my sister and I used to enjoy this. We even stuck the dog with us two in the car. And sometimes we would wait in the car in the heat, other times we be allowed to go on in and watch him administer, and I think this is when my sister developed her interest in medicine. But it was also where we saw what life was really like for blacks.

I - You mentioned seeing what life was really like for blacks. How did that impress you? What feelings did that...

N - I guess a similar feeling of compassion. I also felt that these were my friends. And I still hold that truth. When you get into the clinches, these are the people you can count on. They had a sense of sometimes those with degrees forget or lose.

I - When you mentioned mother wit--can you explain that? What does that mean?

N - Some people call it instinct about life, about politics, about how to treat your fellow man.

I - Would the common sense also be a synonymous term? In other words, being able o apply basic knowledge effectively?

N - Right.

I - And you feel that the people that your father treated, many of them had this common knowledge with people in situations ...

N - How to deal with people and how to survive. They also, because of their poverty, I think they sort of looked after each other. Sort of had to. One man's burden was another man's burden.

I - So you feel that the situation that many people found themselves brought out...

N - The common bond so to speak.

I - Common bond, and the willingness to survive, or a knack for survival.

N - Yes.

I - You've mentioned your father. Is there more than his influence over you, you've gone into dentistry. Did he in some way influence that decision?

N - Yes. I think, it influenced my desire to be in the healing arts, but as a woman, I couldn't quite see myself doing the kind of hours that he did, and going out in the wee hours of the morning to deliver babies, I don't think I would be suited for that type of thing and have a family of my own, because it caused a denial of some things. It denied the family of his time and as a woman I could not see myself being in that type of situation. I never knew what the other half would be involved in and somebody had to be at home, and I have to admit, there's nothing like coming home and finding my mother always there. She was always there with that warm soup and that shoulder to cry on and I wanted the same kind of thing for my children. So I took the nearest thing that I could. I was influenced by a Dr. Raglin, my own dentist. I had my first cavity when I was in college and he said "Well you know if you go into dentistry, have you ever considered going into dentistry, you can more or less set your own hours and have some life for your family and yourself." And I gave it some consideration, and I think I made the right choice.

I - And you said Dr. Raglin, what was his first name?

N - I think it was Edwin.

I - OK. Edwin Raglin.

N - He had an office in Jackson Ward at that time, and I loved dentistry and love what I'm doing. I have contact with people; I enjoy seeing relief and it's an artistic thing, but certain hours are for my family. They respect that right. And my husband is gone a great deal and there are times when I am the family.

I - Are there other things about the community that you remember? I was asking you about other events that might have occurred in your formative years when we ran out of tape so to speak? Were there other events that you eel were significant to your development?

N - One of my biggest joys over the summers was riding with my father on his house calls, and also working in his office. Here I had a daily contact with patients and they came to know me and some of them still call me Diane. I now get patients generation or two from that, the children and grandchildren from these individuals, and those who are still living do come to me. They often reminisce about the good old days. The fact is that some of the elderly patients come and, not with any real complaint, I find that they just want to sit and talk because someone will take some time with them. My sister and I used to be involved with the Armstrong Playground some evenings, Department of Recreation and Parks, she spent summers working there to pick up a little change for her camera equipment, which was her big thing at that time, and some school clothes and activities. And I went along for the ride for the play. Another influence was working at MCV. I remember working at MCV in some of the laboratories some summers just for the experience, no pay. And one summer to pick up some small change, but that also brought me into the allied field of medicine. My sister's then fiance was working in one of the laboratories doing experiments at the time and I used to spend my lunch hours down there. Picking up bits of information in reference to medicine and experiments and this kind of thing, which influenced me when I did decide on a science project one year when I was in high school, go to the Math and Science Center. During my high school years I was more or less not so much involved in community activities as my studies. By then I had become quite wrapped up in the school newspaper and the honor society things like Alpha Kappa Mu. But I wasn't much one for ball games and proms and this kind of thing, more or less academics.

I - We've talked some about high school and your involvement in various projects and so on and for the most part you being a studious person, then you went to college. What college did you go to?

N - I went to Virginia Union University. Partly because my sister had gone there, and I had gotten a slight taste of it because I used to have access to the campus when she was going back and forth.

I - We've mentioned your sister several times, I think, but I don't think we've named her, or given her name.

N - Well, she is Mrs. Jean Ellis, or as most people know her Dr. Jean Harris. And she was the first black to attend the Medical College of Virginia and then the first black and the first woman to serve on a Cabinet in the State of Virginia Governor's Cabinet. I also was influenced by the fact that I won a scholarship to Virginia Union in the competition in the Mathematics and Science division and also because I wanted a small college, one that had sort of a family atmosphere rather than a large urban institution. And I find it very gratifying.

I - So your matriculation at Union was, how was that? Your involvement with the sciences and so on, you said the atmosphere sort of community or family atmosphere?

N - The ties were very close. The instructors shoot any promise at all or any interest they really took an interest in you. And it worked out very well. It was also either fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, where I met future husband.

I - And the two of you met in college, and this was the beginning of your relationship with your husband or was that later than you became ... ?

N - Oh that was later that we became really involved. He was about to go to law school and at the time I was very involved in the sciences in the northern end of the campus and he was involved in the southern end of the campus, although the campus isn't that large, because he was in the social sciences. When he went to Howard and came back home we did have occasion to date and to further the relationship.

I - When you completed Union what did you do then?

N - Well, I applied, about this time of course had contact with Dr. Raglinas I mentioned and I applied with several dental schools. I applied to MCV and was accepted there but received word Howard earlier and of course my husband, well, of course he wasn't my husband then, was already at Howard and he encouraged me to come there. It wasn't too far from home so I chose Howard over MCV.

I - And you prepared yourself for the dentistry?

N - Yes.

I - And then what?

N - Well, I always had my eyes set back on my community. I always wanted to come back here and I set up a couple of doors. My father always hoped that my sister and I would always come back here and practice, and at the end of my training I came back home.

I - And you've been here ever since.

N - Yes.

I - When about was that that you came back and set up practice?

N - Oh, it was around 1962.

I - And when you set up practice, were you married then?

N - Yeah, I was married.

I - And of course we are speaking of Mr. Marsh. Mr. Henry L. Marsh, III as the other part of your life.

N - It's very convenient, I practice under the name of Dr. Harris because I got my degree that way and also because at that time that was the way I was known around the community and I'm living just four blocks away from the office which is very convenient. My daughters went to George Mason as I did which made it very convenient and it just worked out very well. I have had no desire to go any where else.

I - One of the things that we didn't mention, your father built pretty substantial home in an area that I suppose at the time many people were moving to other areas, was there anything in particular that influenced him to do that?

N -Well, it was a decision on the part of both of my parents. My mother felt that she would put in in the community that had provided it. There was no great desire to move any where else.

I - I just thought that was interesting because you know a lot of people for whatever reason were leaving the community about that time and I think it shows a concern for the community and appreciation for someone to remain.

N - It's like an investment or reinvestment in their faith in my parents.

I - Is it appropriate to talk some about your marriage and your family?

N -Maybe.

I - How many children do you have?

N -We have three children.

I - You have three children.

N - Two girls and a boy.

I - And their names?

N - Nadine, Sonia, and Diane.

I - And their ages?

N - They are 18, 16, and 13.

I - And how is this your practice in dentistry and you've got three children and a husband, how does one balance all of this?

N - Well, you never really fully balance it. Well, first of all, living with my husband is like riding on a roller coaster, somebody forgot to pull the lever to let you off. It's not easy, but you do the best you can and pray the rest of the way. I mentioned the convenience of the school, I have extra office space. I never set up one of my operatories. I have a one chair office, and that's on purpose. When the last child gets totally out of the way and I do not feel the need to have ... when I feel I can expand my practice more.Then I will install that other chair. Until that day, I will run a one chair office. But the other space has been from time to time equipped with a bed.I have a bed in the other room so that when they're ill and can't go to school and it's a necessity to come to my office then I'll bring them with me and I can keep an eye on them. After school they can always come here, this is like a second home to them. When they were infants and didn't go to school, they came here too.

I - That's very interesting. And Mr. Marsh, what does he have to say about all of this? Or is he just enjoying the fact that he had an industrious wife who is family oriented?

N - Well, Henry is not a man with many words, as you know. I assume he appreciates it.

I -Well, I would certainly like to thank you for taking this time to share your memories of Church Hill and give us some ideas of the kinds of events and people who shaped your life. Are there other things or people that you would like to mention at this time?

N - Well, the community in general, really. The teachers in my high schools. You know in my high school and my college they were very influential. I remember them as being very strong people, oriented to the community whether they lived in it or not. And of course my parents above all.

I - Well, we certainly would truly like to thank you for taking this time from your busy schedule.

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