Church Hill - Holcomb

Virginia Black History Archives

Church Hill Oral History Project

Transcript of Interview with Mrs. Lucille B. Holcomb, August 19, 1982. Interview conducted by Akida T. Mensah.

I = Interviewer

N = Narrator

Tape interview with Mrs. Lucille B. Holcomb at 2808 E. Leigh Street sharing her remembrances of Church Hill. Date: August 19, 1982.

I - Mrs. Holcomb, when were you born?

N - August 16, 1891

I - And where were you born?

N - In Hanover, VA

I - Hanover County, VA. When did you come to Richmond, about how old were you?

N - I don't know a baby I reckon.

I - You were a young child. And where did you live when you first came to Richmond? Where was the first home site, do you know?

N - I don't know that, but...

I - Where was the first place that you remembered?

N - Well it must have been on 32nd Street.

I - 32nd Street, what block?

N - Near Cora Bowler's momma.

I - This would have been approximately the 1200 block of 32nd.

N - Might have been the next block, I don't know. But it was near Ms. Bowler's place.

I - And then where did you live?

N - My grandmother, momma died there on 32nd Street. They brought us to 31st Street, my grandmother lived at Ms. Brown's house, Bessie Brown's home.

I - You mentioned your mother, what was your mother's name?

N - Ella. Ella Ball. Her first marriage, she was Ella Taylor, then she married George Brooks, that was my father. She died when I was born. My brother was 2.

I - So your father's name was George Brooks and your mother's name was Ella Brooks. And you lived on 31st Street as you remember, do you remember the block or address?

N - I don't remember, but I can tell you, Ms. Angie Scott lived right near grandma, right in the same block.

I - What was your grandmother's name?

N - Lucy Ball. And then from there I don't know, that must have been the 1200 block of 31st.

I - Ms. Holcomb where were you living when you started to school?

N - I was living at 1325 N. 27th Street. 27th Street then was the county and Bro. Charlie's aunt, Mrs. Grace Ranson, she lived right on the corner where Ms. Fleming lived, Herbert Fleming, lived right down on the corner and I gave Aunt Gracie's number and I'd stay there all the week, so I could go the city school instead of being in the county where we lived and I'd stay there until stay with Aunt Grace until Friday, I'd go home to see grandma and then finally before it finished, out there where we lived come to be the city and had to go with my brother, they afraid, said couldn't send him to Aunt Grace because he talked so much, he'd put me out of school and him too.

I - What school did you go to, what was the first school you went to?

N - We went to George Mason, but then East End School, I didn't never go to the county school. But Danny went to the county school, cause they say they couldn't send him to George Mason because he would put all of us out.

I - Was he mischievous?

N - Yea, mischievous, and let me tell you, Lord he worried grandma, he could throw rocks and we lived at 27th and T Street an an old blind white man used to come by with his little girl leading him down on 28th Street, Danny threw a rock from 27th Street and hit the little girl in the head. And the officer was named Garnett they didn't arrest you and carry you down like they do right now, so Danny had throwed this rock and they must told where the rock come from, so they come, brought Danny to grandma and told, old lady just whip him now and make him stop throwing rocks. Danny threw rocks all the time and loved to play chu and Grandma would say Lou, go tell Danny I say come here. I'd go after him and I say, Danny, Grandma wants you and if I keep on calling him and he calling them chances, he sure going, I'd have a knot on my head when..

I - When you say changes ... is that marbles?

N - Yea, marbles, they call them then changes. And he and them changes.

I - So you went to East End School ....

N - Yea, I went to East End School. I didn't go no further than I finished 7-B. And then when I got ready to go to school they had to pay, buy all us books, Grandma wasn't able to buy them so everybody just had that much well, I had enough to I could read and write and kinda look after myself.

I - And you mentioned, okay you were born in 1891 and ...

N - My brother Danny, he was born in 1893.

I - And your birthday was this Monday?

N - This last go Monday, August 16th. And Danny's birthday, this coming December 12th he would be 89, cause I'm two years older than he.

I - So you moved, you said there was a fire at the first that you lived.

N - Yea, 1906 and the lady that lived next door to us, we lived on the corner, she had three girls and she worked in, the mother worked in the factory and she had gone to work and something caught fire in the house and them children shut the fire up in the house and went on to tell their momma and it burnt that house down, and when we come out of school that afternoon won't nothing but a piece of the self-heater set up on it, everything else was burn up verything we had was burnt up.

I - So then you moved to where?

N - Well, we were burnt out then, my uncle's wife, we went round, we lived a month round on 25th Street, 1205. Her momma was named Caroline Coles and we stayed there one month. My uncle was buying that house, start buying from the insurance we had on the things that burnt up, he paid on the house 617 N. 30th Street and vd lived there and he married Miss Mary Willis Hudson, she used to teach at, over at George Mason and he went to live down there and I still lived with... Grandma stayed there and doctor sent Grandma's youngest son George he got sick and sent him south for his health and he came down here and he went down Hanover to, he had lots of people down there, Berle Boil and Junious Ball, Marior Boil and Betty Ball and then we had some, I can't think of all of them but when Uncle George died, Aunt Bertha came and carried Grandma back. So Bro. Mack had three children, Archer, Ruby and Bertha Ball. Bertha is the only one living, she living Mt. Vernon, New York and that's the only first cousin and I got one more Edith Jones she lives with Bertha, that's the only three first cousins all the others dead.

I - Okay you lived on 30th Street, 617 30th Street. Was that area, from my undertanding was called Shad Town. This general area.

N - Well part of that I imagine they used to call from P Street on through there, they called Shad Town. I moved, but I belonged to Mt. Olivet Church and I went back for a long time.

I - So you were a member of Mt. Olivet Baptist Church.

N - I joined in Rev. Bowler's time. When he was pastor there.

I - What kind of person was he? Did you get to know him?

N - A lovely person, he taught George Mason School the last grade. And when I went, the year I was to go in the 5th grade they must have had so many pupils over there, he t`ught the 4th grade that year. That made all of us that was to go to him for the 5th grade we had to go down to Valley School. So I finished the 5th grade and the 6th grade down there.

I - And the Valley School was located where?

N - I reckon 16th and Marshall. See the jail was across the street on that side and the school was on ...

I - This was under the via duct.

N - Yea, good ways cause I used to sometime have, we was ready after I had to go down there, if we would get ready before 7:45 we'd come round here and get on my brother's, we'd sit in his truck and he'd put us off.

I - Mrs. Holcomb you lived in the 600 block of 31st Street and I understand that there was a Doctor Tancil who lived on 30th Street, 601 and he was president of the Nickel Saving Bank, did you know him or did you ever get a chance to see him?

N - Yea, that was my doctor.

I - He was your doctor. And could you tell us something about the bank where it started and you know that kind of thing.

N - Children would go there carrying ... but I don't know, I can't tell you much about that.

I - Would go to his house carrying pennies?

N - You see the bank was in the basement, 601 30th Street, they had a big, big place and he had, Dr. had a farm out in the country somewhere and he had the bank was there. Rev. Bass would come, Samuel Clay he was there too.

I - So there was Dr. Tancil, Samuel Clay and Rev. Bass they were all associated with the bank. Did you ever have occasion to go in the bank, when it was on 30th Street?

N - Yea, but you know I ain't never paid no more than, if I had a little change I wanted, I would put that in.

I - And they moved, I understand up to 29th and Leigh, and that building is still standing.

N - Yea, it's still there, and Hoffman, I don't know if Hoffman was the first one to move in there or not, but I know, must not been 'cause the other lady, white lady was there first. Old man Hoffman was the last one that was there.

I - Let me ask you this, are you ... you lived on 31st Street, a good part of your life?

N - No not much, see when I was small, we moved from 31st Street to 27th Street.

I - No I mean after you moved into the 600 block.

N - After I moved in the 600 block, I stayed there 617 N. 30 Street. See we moved there in 1906, well my uncle was buying the house, well his wife sick, for a good little while and grandma and I we looked after the children and we looked [after] her. He had three children and we stayed there, I got married in 1914, September 30th and I didn't want to stay there because, well I didn't want to leave because Grandma would be there by herself with children.

I - And you say this was 30th Street.

N - Right there on, I stayed on.

I - So you lived in the same block with Dr. Tancil.

N - Yea, he lived on the corner and I lived about four doors from him.

I - And you got married in 1914, this was round the first World War. Was the bank still there in 1914 when you got married, do you remember?

N - Yea,

I - You remember going to the bank and you say Dr. Tancil was your doctor, how long was he your doctor, was he your doctor when you got married still?

N - Yea, I needed him with my third child, I was real sick and they told Elworth I'd die if I went to the hospital and I'd die if I stayed home.

I - And Elworth was your husband.

N - Yea, he died, he been dead two years September. The llth, he was to go to the doctor that morning, doctor would he have heart attack suffered in 1978 and one night scared me nearly to death, wasn't anybody here but me so I got ...

I - Mrs. Holcomb, can you talk a little about this block that you live in what were some of the people who lived in this block.

N - Child, I don't want to talk about them who lived over there.

I - Well what about this side?

N - Bee's upstairs, Ms. Soloman died year before Thanksgiving before last. She be dead two years this coming, she'd living in that house. They had a fire over there ....

I - But over the years who were some of your neighbors, you know when you first came around here.

N - Oh child, won't but ... one lady and she stayed there till a week or two and she lost her husband and she went back uptown to live near her sister. And then the lady downstairs, I reckon she moved out soon after I came here, Mrs. Timmons lived downstairs she come from ... Mr. and Mrs. Florence Taylor lived here ...

I - I'm speaking now to Mrs. Adele Peal,

I - Ah, Mrs. Peal, I understand that this block at one time was in the black community at least thought of to be a block of importance the people who lived here, the houses, were well kept and in a lot of people thought of this block as being the place to be so to speak, could you bear some light on this. I understand there was a family Barretts that lived in this house and the house next door.

N - Well the Barretts were born in 2806 and the children, one daughter built the house on one side of it and the other daughter built on the other side

I - So then there we are talking about 3 houses that the Barretts lived in. And the father was a mail carrier, and that was James Barrett and apparently this family was pretty well thought of or at least the way kept the block or kept their houses apparently drew attention to this area. Can you or your mother describe Mr. Barrett, he was, what kind of person was he? Was he the kind of person that was friendly, did he ... I'm trying to find out why was it so much attention brought to this block, was he the kind of person who helped people, helped a lot of people, or was it just that the houses were nice houses for that day?

N - I reckon they looked at him because he was a postman, mailcarrier at that time.

I - And being a mail carrier at that time was sort of prestigious. You said in working for the government they thought ...

N - That was good job.

I - I can understand that. You mentioned, Mrs. Holcomb, earlier, that you recalled the cave in of the tunnel down at Jefferson Park, could you tell me something about that, did you go down there actually during that time when they had the cave in.

N - No, I never went down to look at it, there is very little I can tell other than what I had heard of it.

I - So it's not a great deal you can tell me about that except what you heard.

N - They say they got the men that run the train out and the others were left under there.

I - And this I think would have been around 1925 or thereabouts. N - I don't know exactly.

I -What kinds of things did you do as a young person and early marriage for recreation, were there social clubs or did you go to ball games, or just what did you do for enjoyment?

N - I did go to football games, didn't belong to any those bridge clubs, recreation clubs, like that and the church.

I - Do you remember any names of the teams, you said you went to football games.

N - Used to go to Union, fellow that went to Union used to come over here and we'd go up there to see different teams, fellow named Robert Booker used to come...

I - When was this about, can you pinpoint it?

N - That been a long time, this was before 1914, went up to Virginia Union about 1910, knew two boys used to come over here all the time.

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