Church Hill - Holman

Virginia Black History Archives

Church Hill Oral History Project

Transcript of Interview with Mrs. Amanda Holman, March 11, 1982.

Living on Carrington Street in Richmond - This is a tape interview with Miss.. Mrs. Amanda Holman who lives at 2206 Carrington Street in Church Hill. Miss Holman is 74 years old, retired factory worker, tobacco factory worker. And she describes living in the Carrington Street area while sitting on her front porch. The interviewer is Akida Mensah, the date is March 11, 1982. The interview time is 12 noon. Carrington Street is a cobblestone corridor north of Venable Street. There is some background noise because of the interview being conducted on a front porch. However, the clarity is good and the interview went well.

Mensah : And you were born in 1907?

Holman : 1907, October the first 1907.

Mensah : Uh hum. What was it like growing.up around here? Who were someof your neighbors?

Holman: Well, some of our neighbors were um, Mitchells.

Mensah: The Mitchells?

Holman: Yes, uh Davises

Mensah: Davises

Holman: Robinsons, Mayos, and

Mensah: Did they have children? A lot of children, were there a lot of children around at the time?

Holman: Oh yes, there were a lot of children around here cause of... right at this time I don't.. don't.. I can't place all of 'em names but uh, it was a lot of children around here.

Mensah: How large was your family?

Holman: Well, um, I had two sisters, a brother, and myself.

Mensah: So it was six of you in the family?

Holman: Um hum.

Mensah: And what about school? What school did you go to? Elementary?

Holman: Well, I went to uh, Buchanan Street School, and I was transferred from there to.. to George Mason School ....

Mensah: Did you......

Holman: And than that's where I stopped at... I didn't um, didn't.. didn't go um, any further than George Mason School.

Mensah: Did you walk to Buchanan? How did you get to school?

Holman: Oh yeah. I walked down to... to 'bout.. there was hills down there then you know you go up the hill and down the hill. But duh, yeah, I use to walk to Buchanan School and I also walked to George Mason.

Mensah: At George Mason, which.. which building did you go to? Did you ever attend the building that...

Holman: The old building. That's were I went in, the old building, the.. the um, I don't ... they add a frame part on to George Mason uh, uh, you know, weather board.

Mensah: Uh hum.

Holman: But I went in the brick part, the old building use to be there.

Mensah: Uh huh. Well, that was at 29th and "O" Street?

Holman: 29th and "O". Yes.

Mensah: And walking along was it much different than it is looking like now? Going to George Mason School, was it much different? Were there more houses or less houses?

Holman: Well uh, I can't remember any less houses and I don't remember any uh, disagreeable.. disagreeables in walking you know. It seem to been uh, street seem to been pretty good you know.

Mensah: Yes. One interesting feature of Carrington Street is these cobblestones. Were they always here when you.. you always ...

Holman: No they were not always here, and it was dirt. It was kind of muddy, you know, street to cross. But they decided to put these cobblestones through here like this; Uh one man would uh, they would sitdown and have one or two men sitting down laying bricks and than these other men would come long with these um, it look like it was a heavy thing but it had a lot of weight to it with two handles on it and they would press the bricks down.

Mensah: How old were you about when, the.. when.. when this happened?

Holman: I guess I was about 12.

Mensah: About 12?

Holman: Yes, uh huh.

Mensah: So that would have made it probably around 1919, I would imagine or there about. Uh, in going to Fourth Baptist Church uh, as a child, how was it? How was Reverend Payne? I've heard so much about him as a man

Holman: Well, he was.. he was a good preacher I'll tell you that. He taught you the way and uh, he was uh, he was a very generous man I think because uh, he was.. you could talk to him you know what I mean? It's not all people that you can.. can go and talk to and you could.. you could talk to him. He was always uh, like sympathetic and yet he was a firm man. Very firm. And um, I went there always from a little child up until.. but I didn't accept Christ until I was 17 years old. But I went to Sunday School there always from a little child on up. But lately I had to go to.. I had to go to.. I had to-go to Sunday and Church. That's what I had to do and if I didn't do that I couldn't go out at all. (laughs) No that's right you couldn't go out the house. Uh, you had to stay, that's something what you had to do on Sunday. But I accept the Christ when I was 17 and he was uh, my father in the Gospel because I went to a Fourth Church on a Palm Sunday and went in the church and up to the pulpit and duh, shook his hand on a Sunday, on a Sunday morning, Palm Sunday. I'll always remember that day.

Mensah: So one of the things, one of the things that characterize your growing up was uh, that you...a lot of emphasis was placed on going to Church on Sunday?

Holman: Yeah, that's right. My mother and father saw that I went to church, yeah we had to go. Instilled that in us and I have that in me today! These chillen, I havve grandchildren here today, hey all go too. Some go to Fourth Baptist and some go to Cedar Street. And they.. they have to.. uh, I get up every Sunday morning and get 'em out here. They go to go Sunday School and Church and trying to instill that in them.'

Mensah: What.. what kind of work have you done over the years mostly?

Holman: Well, I've worked in um.. when I first went out to work I worked at the Richmond Hotel and the Beauty Shop. I was in my teens then. And duh, and of course, I got married and I went to Philadelphia to live. And duh 11 years I stayed there and I came back here andduh ..

Mensah: About when did you come back? Do you remember the year?

Holman: There you go with them years now (both laugh).

Mensah: Kind of hard to remember the years?

Holman: Yeah, you bet. And of course I came back cause my husband died and then I went back there stayed, and then I came back here and I been here every since. That's has been.. yeah cause I got married and I worked 30 some years at the Consolidated uh, Tobacco Company down at uh, 3rd and Cary. And I was remarried then to uh, Junius Holman. But duh ....

Mensah: Prior to that, you were married to who?

Holman: To uh, Calvin uh, Bagby.

Mensah: Calvin Bagby?

Holman: I was a Bagby. And I worked 30 years down there ... and I retired(at same time Mensah)

Mensah: At the Consolidated?

Holman: Yes, yes.

Mensah: When did you retire, do you remember?

Holman: Shortly after the people... I think that was around '46. I think around '46, I'm not sure about it. I got it down, I got it in here but I just don't remember it.

Mensah: But you worked there 30 years?

Holman: 30 years, yeah. And they closed down there. That's why I had to retire you know. Yeah, but I was working there then they closed down. They closed the plant. And I had to take my retirement. That was uh, that was uh 62.

Mensah: You retired at 62?

Holman: 62, uh huh.

Mensah: Uhm. You ... you're related to Mr. William Fields?

Holman: Yeah. I'm related to his wife, uh huh. We're cousins.

Mensah: You're cousin of Mr. Fields' wife?

Holman: Wife. Yes. That's right.

Mensah: How.. 'bout how long did they own.. run the store on Carrington street? Was it always a store when you ... was it a store when you were growing up or was that in later years?

Holman: No, it wasn't. Another store was there. He.. he had two houses there, but he had run the store down in Fulton. That's why he called her because she could you know. She could tell more about that then Ican. Uh, she uh..he had a store in Fulton and then he uh ... after he had the store in Fulton he opened up this store and took these two houses and made a store out of 'em. And had a wood yard here. You see a wood job and a store out the two houses. And he had a fire and uh,..and then he had duh, build the one.. one building you know. Uh, he had the store and the two houses and then after the fire burned him out he built a one uh, you know pla..a onest..hou.. I guess you call a one building house you see.

Mensah: What..w hat was the address there?

Holman: And that's 22 uh, 2200.

Mensah: 2200?

Holman: Uh huh.

Mensah: And that's where the store was?

Holman: Yeah. I think he had been in business for 'bout 40 some years when he died. But know the.. the year he died that's ... that's the thing that I would had asked her. You know what year he did .... (interuption by Mensah)

Mensah: And by her you mean his..his daughter (said at same time as Holman)

Holman: But he had his... Yes. Because he had been in uh, I do remember saying he had been in business on that corner 40 years when he died.

Mensah: And uh, Mr. Fields was a deacon at Fourth Baptist Church?

Holman: Deacon at Fourth Baptist Church. That's right.

Mensah: And you said he had a store in Fulton., was he from the Fulton area? Is that where he grew up?

Holman: Um, yeah. I think he evidently uh, lived in Fulton before he uh, before he married my cousin. I think that's where he was. I don't have all the details about that, but I think that's where he..he resided, in Fulton.. Uh uh uh..

Mensah: What about uh, 24th Street? Did you know the Murrays? Mrs. Robinson's mother?

Holman: Yeah.

Mensah: They were pretty prominent people, where they?

Holman: People, yeah. And they was all good standard people. Good, yes. Not like the people of today you know. They were.. they were people that held high morals you know. Yeah. They were good standing people. The Davidsons and all that. .those people, the Mitchells and.. and uh, all those people they were good people.

Mensah: The Murrays seemingly built a home on 24th Street somewhere around 1890 something uh, were... were they and your family friends or did to your knowledge uh...

Holman: Well I don't know whether they was personal friends but they knew all of those people all those people was just like a...like a family around here. You know what I mean. One knew the other. One knew the other, you see. It won't like it is now you know. People you don't know 'em you know. But.. but people in that... in those time when I raised up, people, uh, they.. they was at one family you know. They knew one other and they uh, could deal with each other, you know.Yeah.

Mensah: You mentioned that duh, you were probably delivered by Polly Howard.

Holman: Yeah. Her name was Polly Harris, mother you know was a midwife. I use to hear my mother speak of her.

Mensah: And uh, you said Miss Polly Harris's mother was Polly Howard?

Holman: Yeah that right. Yeah.

Mensah: And she was a midwife and....

Holman: Yeah. She was a midwife, yeah.

Mensah: Did she deliver most of the children in this area?

Holman: Now, I don't know about that, but I do know I remember hearing my mother say that uh, I think I was delivered you know, by her and all. It use to be another one by the name of Miss Beverly that use to live up there cause uh, she was in later days I know that Helenand Almita's children she was the midwife for them. But duh, I heard my mother speak of Mrs. Polly Harris. Yeah.

Mensah: What kind of work did your mother and father do?

Holman: Well my mother she.. she didn't do any work. Uh, she did washing and ironing but my father worked on the railroad.

Mensah: Worked on the railroad?

Holman: Yeah, he worked on the railroad for years.

Mensah: What was this the C&O?

Holman: C&O, yeah.

Mensah: Railroad?

Holman: Yeah.

Mensah: What..what did he do? Do you know?

Holman: Well, I think he cleaned cars. I think that's what the.. he done.. did at that time clean the cars you know.

Mensah: And did he work down at the 17th Street?

Holman: Down 17th Street back there.

Mensah: One of Mrs. uh, Howard's sons, Isiah Howard worked down there didn'the?

Holman: Yeah. Yes he did that.

Mensah: When?

Holman: Was Polly's brother...

Mensah: Yeah.

Holman: Yeah, yeah. Because he and mv father, they knew each other well and all they use to.. cause I know uh, remember that. And duh, he use to come through here, cause he use to come through here from down there you know and they walk down there and they walk back.Yeah, yeah. I remember that.

Mensah: Do you ever recall uh, Ben having a.. a restaurant or a little snackshop down on uh, I believe it was 17th Street. 17th, 18th Street? Had a little snack shop down there for a while.

Holman: No.

Mensah: You don't recall that?

Holman: Might have. I don't say he didn't have, but I don't recall that.

Mensah: You mentioned a can factory being located over...

Holman: Yeah that building. You see that old brick building over there? That use to be the American Can... Can Factory. Used to make cans.

Mensah: Right. And that's between..that's Venable Street between Pint and...

Holman: Pink and uh..and uh, Rose. It use to be Rose at that time.

Mensah: Uh huh.

Holman: I don't know what it is now, but they renamed that street I think.

Mensah: Would that be Russell?

Holman: I think that's...that's Russell now. But it use to be Rose. Yeah.

Mensah: And they made cans?

Holman: It a little sa..salt. Yeah, they made cans and they use to employ the white folks to work there, white.

Mensah: You said this area at one time was pretty much white neighborhood.

Holman: White. Yes it was uh...most of this block uh, down to Carrington Street uh, yeah, on down, white, and white was in all those street. Those short..those short streets was white. And Venable Street was white and back of us on back here - use to be white.

Mensah: So you...

Holman: And 24th Street and this street here was the all..the colored, that I..that I knew round here.

Mensah: So, you're saying basically Ven... uh, Carrington Street was Black residence and 24th street was Black residence?

Holman: Uh huh. And..and uh..and 24th Street and uh, Burleigh Hill overhere was color self. Up there on Burleigh Hill, but duh, the rest of the..and..and..uh,,in ... down on Pink Street was colored. Right in there. But..but..duh, the rest in back in here and down the street and on back it was.. it was.. they was white.

Mensah: There was George Howard, supposedly lived in a house where the House of Happiness is. Can you recall him? I think he made....somebody in his family made yeast years ago and they say they tore the house down in 1930 or something.

Holman: I reckon so, but I don't know cause I think..I think far as I can remember the House of Happiness been there. I might.. I don't know how much 'bout that but as far ... that's all I can remember and I don't know. I don't know about that. Howard might have been there.

Mensah: Yeah. Well um, the family would probably would have been there still. I think his daughter uh, daughter I believe stayed there until the 1930's and then they tore it....

Holman: Tore it down, uh huh.

Mensah: Um, I was just wondering if you might remember that.

Holman: No.

Mensah: The CCA Ball Park, do you remember that?

Holman: Yeah, I remember that. (at the same time......

Mensah: lDCated..uh, and when it..when it was built who used it most?

Holman: Well, most of it was used for ball games. Yeah.

Mensah: Baseball games?

Holman: Baseball games, yeah. Mostly was used for that. Later years after that they come just using it for.. to have wrestling going round there, and than they would use it for carnivals.

Mensah: Uh hum.

Holman: ... and duh, carnivals and things like that. But uh, the last I can remember it was used for carnivals.

Mensah: Did you ever go to the ball games?

Holman: No, I never, never went to the ball games, but it used to be crowds of people use to go through here going to the ball game. But I have been to the carnivals that they had out there at night you know. Walk out there, but I never been to any ball games.

Mensah: What other kinds of things in growing up did you do for entertainment? You said on Sundays uh, primarily you went to church and if you didn't you know you would be unpunished and wouldn't be allowed to do other things. What other kinds of things did you do?

Holman: Well, MDre..wasn't nothing else to do if you didn't go to But you know, everthing on Sunday wouldn't no where for you to go. No, wasn't like..wasn't like it is now. They have places to go and uh.. but wasn't too much interesting going on you know what I mean. You had to either went to BYP, you uh.. after go in church in the evening and to BYP and all like that but wasn't nothing else for you to uh ... wasn't no where else for you to go. I didn't find no place else to go.

Mensah: Did you ever go to the movie? ......

Holman: Going walk out to the girls.. yeah. I use to go to the movie during the week. Yeah.

Mensah: But you...

Holman: I use to go to ah, (Someone interupts and speaks "How yalldoing?".Mensah and Holmes, "Alright.") I use to go to the ah, place called the Academy. Uh, just don't know whether it was 8th Street or9th Street now. Because they tore that down.

Mensah: It was called the Academy?

Holman: Academy. Uh huh.

Mensah: And this is where they showed movies?

Holman: They showed, naw they showed duh, Well they showed pictures sometimes because I saw "Way, Down East" at there one time. And they used to have vaudeville acts. Yeah, and my father use to come after me you know at night like he would come and meet me so I could come home you know 'cause Trolley Cars was running hen. Yeah.

Mensah: Do you have any children?

Holman: Yeah. I have a son, a foster son that raised. I adopted him. He was adopted. And I have grandchildren. He have children, my grandchildren.

Mensah: Did ... they grew up in this area?

Holman: Yeah they grew up round here. Cause their mother use to live right round on 24th street. But she is on um, urn, Roger Street now. But they come round here, they be round here every weekend.

Mensah: How would you describe having lived in this area so many years? Was it an enjoyable experience or was it sort of half and half? Or just how would you describe?

Holman: Well, I describe it as enjoyable to me because uh, I rather be here than any place else and duh, it's home for me and duh, I.. the neighborhood cause is not... is ... is as nice as it use to be. You know what I mean everything use to be kept up much better. And duh people use to be much more neighboring but far as that go they treat me alright around here. I get along alright with everybody. Treat me with respect and that's all I ask for. So.. so uh, I find it kind of enjoyable to live here.

Mensah: What do you think is the big difference between now and when you grew up; if there is a difference?

Holman: Well there is more.. one thing uh, I find the younger people don't respect older people as they did in those times. I remember that when... if you did something wrong when you.. when I was coming up the older person told your mother that you did it. She didn't ask you did you do it. You was going to get it. See you was gonnget a good whipping you know, for doing what you did.

Mensah: So other words your parents would take the word of that older person?

Holman: That right. That right! But now days you cannot speak too much to the children because sometimes the parents would come and get after you or they would go tell the parents something that you done to them and cause you lot of trouble. And the law is different now. And uh, people are not allowed to correct their children like they use to. All, those things they have uh, child abuse and all that. And um, it takes ... you know the children feel like they got more support now to do what they want to do you know. And they do it you see. And its different from the way it was when I come up. You see, I come up under real hard restriction. And I had to obey and do what I was told to do. But now days the children are a little different. I find they whole lot different from whenI was raised up.

Mensah: This area, or part of this area at one time was called Dog Bottom. Do you..

Holman: Down near 24th Street was called Dog Bottom.

Mensah: 24th Street was called Dog Bottom?

Holman: Y eah, down in there. That's what they use to call Dog Bottom. I don't know why that was.

Mensah: Do you.. you have any idea how far that went? Was it just in the 24th Street area or did it go further back?

Holman: Was in the 24th Street area where I thought it was.. was called Dog Bottom. That's what I heard from a child was Dog Bottom. That played out now you know you don't hear that.

Mensah: Was this area of Carrington Street 22nd, 2200 block of Carrington was it ever called any particular name other than Church Hill?

Holman: Uh I don't know whether this was determined a Fairmount or what. I don't know where Fairmount stop.

Mensah: Uh hum.

Holman: I never have known. But duh, they always called back in here the Fairmount area you know. So I guess it determined uh, after you get to Venable Street I guess it was considered Fairmount you know. {End of transcript.]

---

Questions
or Comments

Back to Church Hill index of transcripts.

http://www.library.vcu.edu/jbc/speccoll/vbha/churc h/holman.html
Last update 9/96 (rb)