Church Hill - Jackson
Virginia Black History Archives
Church Hill Oral History Project
Transcript of Interview with Mr. Samuel Jackson, March 23, 1982.
Living In Church Hill (Shedtown). This is a taped interview with Mr. Samuel Jackson of 3107 "Q" Street. The interview takes place in Mr. Jackson's home. The interviewer is Akida Mensah. The date is March 23, 1982. Mr. Jackson is a retired postal employee. He's also worked for Noldes Bakery and for a limited time in the tobacco factory, Whitlocks. Been in the area most of his life and has agreed to share some of his remembrances with the interviewer.
Jackson: Yeah. I was born on 32nd Street. 800 block, 811 to be exact. And my father was Samuel Jackson, Sr. My mother was Ida B. Jackson. My mother died at an early age ... at my early age. And uh, that was in 1909 when she passed. And I was living with my grandmother, across the street. That's 808 32nd Street. And that was down in that section was called, just a block below that was Mayo's Bottom.
Mensah: This would be the 700 block?
Jackson: 700 block. Yeah it use to be uh, old fellow down there named Mr. Mayo. I forget his first name. And uh, he had some..right much little property down there. It wasn't much value but anyhow, they named that after him.
Mensah: Was he white or black?
Jackson: Black!
Mensah: Black?
Jackson: Yeah, he was black. Yeah. Yeah so um, my mother ... as I said my mother died in 1909 while I went to live with my grandmother across the street. And my grandfather and grandmother they raised me because I was just about 5 years old.
Mensah: So you were born when?
Jackson: 1904.
Mensah: 1904?
Jackson: 1904. And uh, my grandfather was a deacon of Fourth Baptist Church. I don't know how many years. And he passed in 1911. So well, soon after he passed I lived with them awhile and my father decided to move. And uh, we moved round with my aunt. She was a Mrs. Nellie Jackson. She lived round there on 32nd Street, she did. 1016. And my father got married again. And we moved on "M" Street. And we stayed there I don't know exactly how many years but than um, we came back out this way in 1913 or 14. Round bout World War One. Then we lived down there on the corner here at 1018 and thanmy father proceed to move up here, and that was in 1914. And I been in uh..in here every since. I been right here every since. Now you can cut that riaht now and let me get some more facts together.
Mensah: Mr. Jackson, what school did you go to?
Jackson: George Mason.
Mensah: You went to George Mason?
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: And uh, which building..where..where was the school located when you were there?
Jackson: At 20 uh..what's that..29th and "O".
Mensah: "O" Street?
Jackson: Yeah. Because they have remodolled it extensively since because the outside of that now they have that Marsh Building.
Mensah: Yeah. So it was a brick building that you went to though? Or did you go to...
Jackson: Yes, the first part... yeah the first one I went in was a brick building.
Mensah: Was the frame building there?
Jackson: Yeah, it was a frame building between Marsh building now and down below the new part they put on. The frame building was in between there.
Mensah: Right.
Jackson: Yeah. And Miss Sus... Miss Susie Dabney was my first teacher. And uh, far as the teachers were concerned there was Miss Susie Dabney, and duh, Mr. Leroy Willis, they were the old pioneers. Miss Wilnette Smith ... and uh, Miss Sara Coles, Miss Bessie Stewart.
Mensah: Did any of them live in Church Hill to your knowledge?
Jackson: Yes. Miss Lula Willis did I know. And Miss Stewart use to live in Church Hill. Miss Coles, she lived in the West End and there was Miss Banks.
Mensah: Was that Louvenia Banks?
Jackson: Louvenia Banks. The same Louvenia Banks, but she lived uptown some. And uh, I reckon there a number of 'em. But uh, when... when I finished George Mason up here, they use to have a school down 29th Street. 01' we use to call it Old 29th Street School. I imagine it between "S" and "T" Streets. There was a four room brick school.
Mensah: That's about the 1400 block?
Jackson: No, it was the 1300 block. Anyhow, uh we had four teachers there, but the outstanding one was Reverend Bowling. Reverend Bowling was from um, Mount Olivet Church.
Mensah: What kind of man was he?
Jackson: Oh, Reverend Bowler was a fine man. You couldn't get him... if you couldn't learn nothing from Reverend Bowler, you couldn't learn nothing from nobody.
Mensah: Did he teach all the subjects like reading, writing, an so on?
Jackson: Oh yeah. Uh huh. That's seventh grade. When you finished with Reverend Bowling you went to high school. Yeah, yeah. Reverend Bowler was alright brother. And uh, I think I saw something in the paper here not long ago. His picture in the Afro. And uh, you wanna cut that a minute?
Mensah: Mr. Jackson, did you finish George Mason?
Jackson: Yes, I finished George Mason in 1919. And went to Armstrong High School. I finished Armstrong in 1923. Yeah, and uh, I married in 1925. Jenny Sue Williams.
Mensah: Jenny Sue Williams?
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: Was she from Church Hill as well?
Jackson: Well, at the time that I married her she was living in Fulton. She use to be right over there where ya'll at, in the 1200 block.
Mensah: In the 1200 block?
Jackson: Urn hum.
Mensah: Did she?
Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. That's where I first met her.
Mensah: Uh huh.
Jackson: And duh, well we stayed together until fiv years ago. She passed.
Mensah: Uh, what... what kind of work have you done in your life?
Jackson: Oh yeah, well uh, I worked at Nolde's Bakery for a number of years.
Mensah: What did you do at Noldes?
Jackson: Well, I used to work on the oven baking the bread and what not.
Mensah: Were you there at the time uh, Crenshaw Robinson was there.
Jackson: Yeah! Crenshaw and I use to work the same side by side. Yeah. Urn hum. Yeah. Crenshaw and I use to work right side by side, and uh, I stayed there and Itook the examination and I told Crenshaw, that I was going to take the examination. They asked.
Mensah: Urn hum. And this was around 1930?
Jackson: Yeah. Uh huh. Around 1930. And I stayed in the post office until 1966.
Mensah: Was Crenshaw Robinson to your knowledge, during that time living at uh, 3215 "N" Street or was he living ...
Jackson: On 27th Street.
Mensah: On 27th...
Jackson: In the 1400 block.
Mensah: In the 1400 block?
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: The reason I asked that question, that house where he moved on "N" Street, 3215 and 3213, uh, are called the Malone House, and it's supposely been there for a number of years...
Jackson: (at the same time as Mensah) a number years...
Mensah: 1850 or so, 1880's.
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: Uh, so I was just asking about that house.
Jackson: Uh huh.
Mensah: Do you recall who lived in that house before he uh, does it ring a bell in your mind who might have lived there before?
Jackson: Now let me see. Can you cut that a minute and let me get myself together?
Mensah: You say that you belong to a social organization called the Lukes?
Jackson: No, that wasn't a social organization. That was the same St. Lukes that they have here now.
Mensah: Oh!
Jackson: The independent order of St. Lukes.
Mensah: Oh! Okay.
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: And it was the cadets.
Jackson: Yeah, he use to have the cadets. We use to call it the St. Luke Cadets. Yeah.
Mensah: And you... was more or less a military kind of ...
Jackson: Well, he wanted it to be. Said that we was.
Mensah: What was the name of leader? The man who ...
Jackson: Must was Christian, use to live down 31st Street in the 800 block. I think that man was ... I believe... think was William... I think was William Christian. We use to call him Brother Christian.
Mensah: And he uh... this group... about what age group was this?
Jackson: Oh, we was a little youngsters man. Around 9, 10 uh, I guess some might been a little bit older. Ain't had nothing but a snare drum and bass drum. That's all.
Mensah: And it wou ... did you participate in any parades or anything like that?
Jackson: Well, sometime he'd have us out and going to some organization or having an aniversary or something. Go along with 'em on something like that.
Mensah: Do you remember a Dr. Tancil?
Jackson: Tancil? Yeah, he use to live right at 30th and Leigh Streets. Yeah, he was a member of Mount Olivet Church. A short... and he use to be almost as round as he was tall. Lived right there at 30 and Leigh Street.
Mensah: I was looking through a book and it suggested that he was president of a bank that was located in ...
Jackson: Round here. It must... maybe...
Mensah: Nickle Saving Bank ...
Jackson: Nickle Saving Bank. Now that old building is there right now at 29th and Leigh. Over on the ... let m see, that's the west, I know that's a number..north west corner. Yeah. Is round there now. That building is there now. That was the Nickle Savings. And I think if ... yeah, everybody talking about take your money out and it went under or something, had to put your money in Mechanics Bank. It was ... had
Mensah: Were there other businesses that you remember similar to that, that blacks owned in Church Hill?
Jackson: Well um, there was an undertaker business, yeah. There was Scotts downtown, And uh, undertaker Williams, he use to be right there on "P" Street before he left there and went to 32nd. And there was Alpheus scott,he was up on uh, "P" Street in bout 3006 up there.
Mensah: This..this was Robert Scott's father?
Jackson: Father. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Robert Scott's father. Was in lil ... latter years. There was the Randolph Brothers use to be at 28th and "N" Street. And they passed. Oh uh, Lightfoot took over that. Yeah, they passed, Lightfoot took over that. On 28th and "M" was Dr. Griffin. Yeah, he stayed there for years respected. Yeah, and then there was Dr. Walter Brown. He use to be there on 29th Street in the 600 block. Than he moved round on 27th Street in the 900 block. Yeah, Brown. I don't know "P" Street, he stayed there with of...2800 block there was Bowles and Shackleford Drug Store.
Mensah: Where was this..where was this located?
Jackson: In... on "P" Street between 28th and 29th. Right on the corner there, right cross from the church over on that corner that I live at.
Mensah: Bowles and Shackleford where ...
Jackson: Bowles and Shackleford.
Mensah: Was this about where Reid's Barbershop?
Jackson: Yeah, Right there!
Mensah: Uh huh.
Jackson: Right there where he at. That's right. Right there.
Mensah: What about groceries stores or dry good stores, and things like that? Were there every any?
Jackson: Well, we still..still have what we use to call Joe Hodes. Right there at 29th and "Q" Street. Yeah, he was. And over on the next..the next corner over there were uh, it use to be Robinson Drug Store there one time. And uh, Hodes Drug Store use to be there. And of course, over on the other corne now where uh, Chinese got this place at now it use to be uh, Pinder Store. Pinder Grocery Store. And also round there use to be an A&P down there at one time.
Mensah: In that same block? Or further down?
Jackson: No. Right where..right where uh, Robinson Drug Store was. See they moved out. Yeah. And duh, up on this corner here we use to have ... Lewis Williams use to have a little restauran up there. Up in the next block there. And ol' man Peyton Woods use to have a store down here in this... in the middle of the block on 20..on uh, 31st Street. It's store down there now but ain't nothing good round here.
Mensah: 31st and "R" isn't it?
Jackson: Naw, tis in the middle about 1100 between "Q" and "R" right in the middle of the block.
Mensah: On the right hand side going down?
Jackson: Going down, that's right. Yeah. I forget who use to run that store across the street over there. And o' man Woods had this tore down here a long time. And uh, let me see what other ol' places was round here.
Mensah: You spent a long time working uh, in a post office. Did you participate in any of the local sports activities? Oakwood had a football team, I think. The Richmond Eagles had a baseball team.
Jackson: Oh naw, they came ... they came uh, behind me. Yeah. Naw I didn't. Yeah, I remember when Oakwood uh, had the football team and the Eagles they came behind me. I was a little older than they. 8
Mensah: Did you ever attend any of their games such as out at CCA Ball Park or any places like that?
Jackson: Oh yeah, plenny of 'em. Plenny of 'em. Oh yeah, we were just ... that's about the only place we could go at round that time because uh, we use to go out there to see the Violets. Uh Than we had a team out this side called the Boosters; and the Boosters came from round at 29th Street in the 900 block. Use to be a building round there, they done pull that down now. Down there next where the Clays use to live.
Mensah: And you say the Boosters, this was a baseball team?
Jackson: Yeah, yeah the Boosters was a baseball team. And then there's a little, what they call a home line, round there. Uh, Dan Winston and uh, Willie Holmes, Willie Holmes dead now, but Dan Winston he is in the nursing home. They were older men. They opened up this home line
Mensah: And... and... was it... what was the name of the home?
Jackson: Boosters' Home.
Mensah: The name of the home of Booster.
Jackson: Booster's Home. Yeah Booster's Home.
Mensah: Were the people in the neighborhood pretty close? For example you... you mentioned Mayo's Bottom and then there was a section over in the 24th Street area called Dog Bottom, and uh...
Jackson: Yeah. And out this was I think we called this... call this... use to call this Shedtown and yeah, they were real close together. Didn't have none this trouble we have now, you know that though!
Mensah: Shedtown, now there's some things .... very little written about it. Uh, are there any...
Jackson: Yeah, now I don't know too... too... why... where it get that name rom. I don't know. I really don't know. But uh, I'll tell you if you... if.... who had a book. Uh, Dr. Edlow. He got a book written by who? Mary Wingfield Scott or somebody. Old houses and things in Church Hill and what not. And think he... I know he'd be too glad to lend it to you because he lend it to me and I read a whole lot in that book. All round here on Church Hill. Yeah. I reckon he'd be too glad... I'm quite sure.
Mensah: Yeah. [I] looked at that book.
Jackson: You have?
Mensah: Yeah ...
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: And it mentioned Shedtown, and it doesn't say where the name, specifically came from, but it talked something about Shedtown.
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: And uh, I was just wondering, you know, whether there was anything uh, you know that you knew about it or had heard about it that might have been a little different from what the book said or more completely.
Jackson: No, and I uh... out that away... out in 25th Street way all of that uh, of course, he doesn't live out there now, but I tell you who ought to be able to give you a whole lot of information, that's Charles Carter. Do you know Charles Carter?
Mensah: Charles Carter? He uh...
Jackson: He belongs to Asbury Methodist.
Mensah: Yeah, yeah. I know him.
Jackson: Yeah. You know him?
Mensah: Charles Jr., I think it is. Charles Jr.
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: Yeah...
Jackson: Well, uh, Charles Carter ought to be able to give you a wealth of information you know 'bout out that away. Yeah. Yeah he should be..more so than I would anyhow because he lived out that away.
Mensah: Uh huh.
Jackson: Ah yelp. You know sometimes you just sit down and talk and these things come to you.
Mensah: Right.
Jackson: Then after you be gone I think about something else.
Mensah: Yeah.
Jackson: All that kind of stuff. Cause that's the way it is. But I'm glad I met you, yeah it'r been a swell evening.
Mensah: Yeah. Uh huh.
Jackson: I'll tell you like this. I left there once and I got back, I told Crenshaw, I say when I leave here again I'm leaving for a better job. And I did.
Mensah: Was... was Nolde's a pretty good place to work for at the time?
Jackson: If you ever got in that place you work too much, because we have to work on Sundays you know. But if you got there you had a job.
Mensah: So places like Nolde's and the Tobacco Factories were pretty good places to work?
Jackson: That's right. And of course, they got more than anybody around here. Working in the tabacco factory.
Mensah: This was like Whitlocks and ...
Jackson: Yeah. Kenneths, Adams, I don't know a whole gang of 'em downtown. I didn't never go there.
Mensah: What did you do at the tobacco factory?
Jackson: What's that..all I did down there, I use to wash windows down there. That's right.
Mensah: You mentioned earlier that one of your grandparents worked with a plumber?
Jackson: Yeah. John H. Rowe, and I don't know whether any that firm or business.
Mensah: But what... what specifically did he do? Was he...
Jackson: Well, I imagine he just helped with the plumber.
Mensah: Sort of like the helper?
Jackson: He wasn't no... Yeah. Yeah. You uh... have you been down Mrs. Westry's?
Mensah: No I haven't. I called her and s ... was saying that she was ill, uh, at the time she had had a fall.
Jackson: Yeah.
Mensah: And that she wasn't up to you know, an interview right now. But uh, I did talk to her some by phone, and she gave me some information over the phone.
Jackson: Yeah. But I imagine uh, uh ... wish I could have been sit up this here and been there with her. She is older than I am and remember.
Mensah: Do you have children?
Jackson: One son. Yeah Dr. R.E. Jackson. I should have been to see him.
Mensah: General practitioner or is he specializing ...
Jackson: No he... he is head of the pediatric department at Meharry Medical School.
Mensah: I imagine you're quite proud of him.
Jackson: Very much so. Yeah very much so. Yeah he made quite a name for himself yeah. He was president of sickle cell anemia organization at one time in Nashville. He even went... he was up in Bethesda Maryland at Howard at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia.
Mensah: Does he come home often?
Jackson: Sometimes. And then he went down at uh..believe it's in Memphis, Danny Thomas.
Mensah: St. Judes?
Jackson: St. Judes. Yeah. He was on the staff at St. Judes. And that's where he was with the people with sickle cell anemia job. They kept him in the air too much, out the hospital and what not too much. I think he kept that for about 4 or 5 years. He went back in the hospital.
Mensah: Yeah I remember him from Armstrong.
Jackson: Urn hum. Yeah.
Mensah: Well, you've been a great help to us.
Jackson: Well I hope so. It ain't much but these things got to come to you.
Mensah: I can understand it. Uh, and I appreciate you allowing me to come in and ...
Jackson: Oh that's alright. I en ... I ain't nothing in the
world to do
for to tell you not to come, and uh, I guess ...
END OF TAPE
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