Church Hill - Marsh

Virginia Black History Archives

Church Hill Oral History Project

Transcript of Interview with Mr. Henry L. Marsh III., October 1, 1982.

This ia a tape interview with Councilman Henry L. Marsh III. Councilman Marsh represents the seventh district Richmond, VA and has agreed to share his memories of growing up in Church Hill. The Councilman presently resides in Church Hill, and is the former mayor of Richmond. He was the first mayor, black mayor, to be elected in the city of Richmond. This interview is being conducted by Akida T. Mensah on October 1, 1982.

I = Interviewer
N = Narrator

I - Councilman Marsh, where were you born?

N - I was born in Richmond, Virginia. I am not sure what part of Richmond. I am not sure where my family was living at the time.

I - When were you born?

N - On December 10, 1933.

I - You mentioned your parents; who were your parents?

N - Henry Lavanda Marsh, Jr. was his name, and Lucy Phillips Marsh.

I - Were they natives of Richmond?

N - No, my father originally was a native of a place called Wadesboro, N.C. and my mother was a native of Hampton, VA. My father went to school in North Carolina; he had to go away from home to go to high school. They did not have a high school for blacks in the part of North Carolina where he was raised. Then he went to Hampton Institute to get some more education, and that is where he met my mother. They got married and he stopped school; then they moved to Richmond. That's how they ended up located in Richmond.

I - What kind of work did they do?

N - Well, when my father came to Richmond he was a waiter at a restaurant called, I believe, Marconi's, and I think my mother was a housewife.

I -You said "when he came to Richmond," did he change occupations after that?

N -Yes and No. He stayed a waiter, but he also became a minister. He went back to school, Virginia Union University, and he got his bachelor's degree and then he went to the divinity school and got his bachelor of divinity degree. Then he went to Union Theological Seminary for some additional courses towards his Master's, but during that time, he became a minister and he had dual employment. That of a minister in A.M.E. Zion Church and he kept his job as a waiter. He kept that job the whole time he was in school.

I - What elementary school did you attend?

N - I started off in a place called Moonfield Elementary School. When my mother died I was five years old, one of my brothers was three, my sister six and one of my brothers was six months old. The three older children were sent to my mother's sister, Mrs. Amy Palmer and a place called Rescue, VA near Smithfield, VA. My youngest brother was sent to another aunt named Mrs.Rebecca Pleasants in Newport News, VA. I stayed in Holloway County from age five to age ten and I went to Moonfield Elementary School, a one room school in Isle of Wright County near Smithfield for the first five years of my education. At that point, my father decided he wanted to get his family back together when we were old enough, and he brought us back from Isle of Wright the three of us, and my youngest brother from Newport News and reunited the family. I lived in Richmond from that point on. I lived in Richmond the first five years of my life and when we came back to Richmond, I lived in Church Hill; 823 N. 29th Street directly across from George Mason School.

I - Was this the brick row or was this another section?

N - This was down the street from the brick row. The brick row was on one corner and this was towards the other corner. It was a brick duplex. Right next to the brick road was an open field, then there was a wooden farm house, then there was a duplex. My father owned the duplex and rented out one half of the duplex and we lived in the other half.

I - So, you are ten years now and in George Mason School across the street. Who was the principal?

N - Joseph T. Bright. My teacher was Mrs. Owens. She was my first teacher and then my next teacher was Mrs. Lorretta Wooldridge.

I - Who were some of your closest friends during your matriculation in George Mason?

N - Landon Davis, Emanuel McGowen, Herman Grim, or Leon Eggleston, I called him Leon but his name was Herman Grim and he was my closest friend. Doc, I can't remember, but the other fellow is a fellow named Doc.

I - Could you describe the neighborhood and your relationship to it; by that I mean what kind of activities did you participate in, did you work after school, etc.

N -Well, I carried newspapers, I worked after school. I carried newspapers in the afternoons and I had a paper route on 26th Street and 27th Street and 28th Street. I carried newspapers just about the whole time I was living in Church Hill.

I - I didn't bring it with me, but I was looking through a 1945 George Mason Class Booklet and there was a poem written by you on President Roosevelt. Do you recall?

N - I have a vague recollection of it. I used to like to write poems and I have a vague recollection of it, but I don't remember the details of it.

I - I think generally it was just sort of extolling the fact that he had done a great deal for the poor people and in general that he was a good man.

N - I wrote my class poem in high school when I graduated and I was editor of my high school paper. I used to like to write during that time.

I - You left George Mason in what year?

N - It would have been 1947. 1946 or 1947. It must have been 1947.

I - And then you went where?

N - To Maggie L. Walker High School.

I - And I take it that during that time street cars were still running even though they were being phased out.

N -Right.

I -And was that your mode of transportation to school?

N - I think they were being phased out around the time I started to school. I believe at one point my father was taking us to school and I recall riding the bus during a large part of the time and I believe I rode the street car during part of the time.

I - Who was your favorite teacher at Maggie Walker or is that an appropriate question?

N - Well there were several who stand out and I liked all my teachers. Mr. William Segar who later became principal, was one of my favorite teachers. He use to challenge me a great deal. I was working at night, and during those days I was working in restaurants, so I would be sleepy during the day in class and he would challenge me for being sleepy in his class. So he was one of my favorite teachers because he use to constantly challenge and that made me work very hard to out do him. His brother, Mr. Carlile Segar, taught me some courses and he was also one of my favorite teachers. Mrs. Daisy Jones Gilliam was also an English teacher who challenged me a great deal. But I enjoyed all of my teachers.

I - What about friends. Who were some of your closest friends in high school?

N - Reginald Winfree was my closest friend. He lived in the West End on Jacqueline Street and he and I were close friends all the way through high school and all the way through college.

I - You mentioned college. After high school, what college did you attend?

N - Virginia Union University.

I - And what course of study did you ...

N - Sociology. I majored in sociology. I attended Virginia Union University from 1952 to 1956.

I - And you mentioned sociology. So I imagine you came in contact with Henry J. McGuinn.

N - Oh yes. Most of my courses in my major were taught by Dr. McGuinn. He challenged me perhaps as much, if not more, than any teacher I've ever had. I was also working at night and he pushed me to excel and we had a little dual that we carried on almost the whole four years or three years when I was working in my major. I think I ended up with twelve courses under him and I ended up with something like eight or nine A's and the rest B's.

I - Very good. Extracurricula activities--what kinds of things did you participate in or did you have the time?

N - Yes. In Maggie Walker at one point, I was president of the NAACP which was a forerunner of the later entrance I had in that organization. I was editor of my high school paper, I was vice president of our senior class, and I was involved in the student government association.

I - This interest in government did it start very early in your life?

N - I think high school was the background because I had a chance to demonstrate some leadership at Maggie Walker. And I think that was the beginning of an interest in government.

I - When you were in Virginia Union were you still living in Church Hill or had you moved?

N - I had moved at that point to the West End on Madison Street, 300 or so Madison Street. At Virginia Union I became president of the student government during my senior year and that was a very good taste of political experience which helped me tremendously. Infact, it was that experience that put me in touch with the General Assembly of Virginia during Massive Resistance because I testified in the hearings against Massive Resistance on behalf of the student body of Virginia Union as the president of student government. And because I did, I ran into Oliver Hill and that's why I am in the offices of Hill, Tuck, and Morris today.

I - Who were your heroes growing up?

N - Well, Oliver Hill, strangely enough. Oliver Hill and Spotswood Robinson who were handling the Brown vs Board desegration cases were two of my early heroes. I witnessed them in court one day and I decided that was what I wanted to do. Thurgood Marshall was another hero, Roy Wilkins, people who were involved in the struggle for racial justice were among my heroes. Of course my favorite hero was my father.

I - It was in college, I believe, that you met your wife?

N - Right.

I - Could you tell us someting about that relationship and your family.

N - Well, I knew my wife from a distance before college because her father was a doctor in the neighborhood when I was living in Church Hill, and when I was going to boy scout camp he used to give me the examinations that would permit me to go. So, I had seen Diane during some of those visits to his office cause he lived in the place where his office was but I didn't know her socially until we got to Virginia Union.

I - And you were married in what year?

N - Well, it was a long courtship because it was about four years at Virginia Union and then three years of law school and then two years after law school we were either engaged or courting and a year after I had been back to Richmond, so it was about 1962, and we got married. We met in 1956, and it was a long courtship.

I - And you have children?

N - Right.

I - What are their names?

N - Duane, who is the youngest; Sonya, Louise, and Nadine-Denise.

I - Your involvement in Church Hill continues in terms of your living there, going to school, and marrying Diane who also lived in Church Hill. You were involved and you've been in many many things, but you were involved in the Model City Program which also aided Church Hill. Could you briefly outlind that involvement.

N - Well, that was an experimental program designed to encourage the cities and businesses to get involved with low income areas and I started as a part of a planning committee who met frequently in the planning process trying to lay the ground work for Model Cities. We met on the top of Manny's Funeral Home for extensive periods of months and then we had the large public mass meeting in George Mason school to start the process of public involvement. We had people from all over town there and people from Church Hill. The auditorium of George Mason was full of people. And then we organized and set up board and had the elections and conducted them all through this program, and I was a member of the board and worked right along as a neighbor and a citizen of Church Hill as well as a leader. So that was a very extensive involvement on my part.

I - I didn't mention it earlier, but some time after your marriage or during your marriage you moved back to Church Hill.

N - Right.

I - You became mayor; the first mayor, black mayor since reconstruction.

N -No, the first in the history of the city.

I -Okay. Good.

N - It was checked and all of the mayors who've ever served as mayor in the hisory of the city have been checked and listed and my assuming the mayorship in March of 1977 was the first time a black had ever served as mayor in the history of the city.

I - Okay. I stand corrected. What was that like? The feelings.

N - Well, it was a very exciting experience for me. I had been involved eleven years as an elected official prior to that and seven of those years I had served as vice mayor, waiting for the election to be held most of that time. Fighting against the other forces trying to gain enough support so that I could be mayor. So, at the end of a long struggle which had started about ten years earlier but there had been people working for that day even before they realized it. So, I felt that sense of history that this was a very important moment in history and a transition for Richmond. I enjoyed the moment and I still enjoy it. It's one of the bright moments in my life.

I - Speaking of Mayors, I believe three other Mayors at least lived in Church Hill at one time or another. I believed Bliley lived in Church Hill, Clifton Bagley lived in Church Hill, and if my recollection is correct Claude Woodard I was told was also Mayor. He also played on one of the early Church Hill baseball teams. So, if that information is correct, then there are at least four Mayors who have come from Church Hill. You being the only black Mayor, not only for Church Hill but in Richmond history. And I brought that point up because there is an illustrious array of names of people who had contact, lived in Church Hill, who are serving in public office, or in other capacities. Much of what this project is about is to bring that to life that Church Hill has made its contribution to the city of Richmond and to the State of Virginia as well as the country. I'm interested to know at this point what is your personal philosophy and your future aims, or what do you see yourself being involved with in the future.

N - Well, I am an extension of the struggle of black people in Richmond and in Virginia and the nation for equal treatment. The struggle to eliminate the vestiges racial slavery which were proficated in the other states, and this is a life long struggle. It started for me in the courts and I am still fighting in the courts. My civic responsibilities and my public office give me additional opportunities to help correct some of these inequities and I by now serving a term which upon its completion will have me serving eighteen years in the city council. That would be longer than any person under the city manager's system in history. The longest before that is 16 years.

I - So, that's another record in the making?

N - But, at the conclusion of this two year term of service, I probably will be available if the people want me to be to make some additional service in local government in Richmond. I think that local government is where the opportunity is to make meaningful progress in the struggle. I feel that I can make a contribution because of my experience in the struggle in local government and for a while longer. Not too much longer, but for a while longer. So, that is my goal and my objective. I have no ambitions and no desires to serve in any "higher" office if there is any higher office, I doubt if there is. I enjoy service in local government, and I think that is where you can make a contribution, and I have been blessed to have tremendous support from lots of people for many many years, and this is a very rewarding phenomenon, and I feel a very sobering responsibility and I take it very seriously. I feel I owe something to those people who invested their faith and support in me for so many years.

I - Well, I think the fact that people supporting you is evidence in the upcoming tribute to you on October 4th, you will be so honored. And I add my name to that list of people who appreciate the sacrifices and the struggles that you have engaged in on our behalf.

N - Thank you.

I - And I would like to thank you for granting me this interview.

N - Thank you. If you need some additional information, feel free to call.

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