Church Hill - R.W.Roane

Virginia Black History Archives

Church Hill Oral History Project

Transcript of Interview with Mr. Robert Willis Roane, October 19, 1982.

This is a tape interview with Mr. Robert Willis Roane, of 3314 P Street. Mr Roane is a 102, he was born in 1880, April the llth. He has agreed to share his remembrances of living in the Church Hill and the East End area with us. This interview is being conducted by Akida T. Mensah, October 19, 1982.

I - Interviewer

N - Narrator

I - Mr. Roane, where were you born?

N - Studely, Virginia.

I - And how long did you live in Studely?

N - I lived in Studely until I was 28 years old.

I - Until you were 28?

N - Yeah.

I - And then you moved to Richmond?

N - Yeah.

I - And where did you live then?

N - I lived on Richmond Street.

I - On Richmond Street. And where was that?

N - That was on the North part of the city of Richmond.

I - And how long did you live there?

N - Nearest I can remember it was 10 years.

I - Were you married during this period?

N - Yeah.

I - What was your wife's name?

N - Rebecca.

I - Your first wife's name was Rebecca.

N - Yeah.

I - And you lived on Richmond Street for about 10 years, and what kind of work were you doing at that time?

N - Oh, I was working in the cigar factory.

I - Do you remember the name of it?

N- Yeah. Whitlock's.

I-And, after the ten years on Richmond Street, where did you live?

N-On 31st Street.

I-What block?

N-In the 1200 block.

I-1200 block of 31st.

N-1211.

I-And what were you doing then? Were you still at Whitlock's?

N-I was still there, in fact when I retired, I was doing that time I was working for P. Lorillard.

I- Did you have children?

N-No.

I-You didn't have any children.

N-No. An adopted daughter.

I-And you said your first wife, were you married more than once?

N-Yeah.

I-How many times were you married?

N-I was married three times.

I-So you were married three times. What was your second wife's name?

N-I can't think of her name.

I-What was your third wife's name?

N-Lucy.

I-Do you know whether you were any kin to Ms. Lina Roane?

N-No I don't think so, I knew of her though.

I-Can you tell me something about Church Hill and Richmond when you first came here.

N-Well, a great change has taken place. Streetcars were running, since that time it's been buses and such like that.

I - Do you remember when they had the black and white balls on the Streetcars?

N - Yeah.

I -What do you think of that?

N -Well, they were very very beautiful at that time.

I -Did it being segregated bother you? How did you feel about segration?

N -That never bothered me.

I -Do you remember any bars being on 25th Street?

N -Yes.

I -Did you ever go into any of them?

N -Yes.

I -What was that like?

N -It was all right.

I -Did many people go in and out?

N -In and out all day long.

I -What kinds of things did they talk about? Did they talk about politics, and women, and that kind of thing.

N -Sometimes they did.

I -Do you remember Mr. Pollard. Isiah Pollard, Buck Pollard?

N -Yeah.

I -Do you remember his father?

N -No. I remember Buck all right.

I -I ask that question because his father was suppose to have been the first black Constable in this area, and I've been trying to find out something about him. So you worked in the tobacco factories, and I guess most of that was down in the Main Street area. Around Dock Street and all around there.

N - That's right.

I - Did you do any other kinds of work?

N - During the first Wrold War, I worked in a locomotive shop.

I - Was this with C&O Railroad?

N - Yeah. Well, I can't really remember.

I -Could it have been Southern?

N -No C&O.;

I -Let me ask you this, do you remember an Isiah Howard or Ben Howard?

N -Yes.

I -Do you remember him having the restaurant at 17th and Fairfield?

N -Yes.

I -Did you ever go in that restaurant?

N -Yeah.

I -What kinds of things went on in there?

N -Well everybody was simply happy at that time.

I -When did you join the church?

N -I belonged to the church since I was 12 years old.

I -So you joined the church in Studely.

N -Yes, Studely, VA.

I -And then you came to Richmond. What church were you associated with in Richmond?

N - Mt. Olivet Baptist Church. I'm a member of there now.

I - Who was the pastor when you went there?

N -J. Andrew Bowler.

I -Has anyone ever told you that you look a bit like pictures of him.

N -No. I don't think so.

I -Well, you remind me of a picture I've seen of him. What kind of man was he, how did he impress you?

N - He was a fine man.

I - What made him fine? What qualities?

N - He was firm about whatever he said and yet he was friendly. He was very friendly with children.

I - Were there other men, prominent men, and when I say prominent people that the community looked up to. Like J. Andrew Bowler. Were there others like that you remember?

N - No. I don't remember any.

I - He was sort of a unique person.

N - Yeah. He was.

I - You were beyond school age when you came to Richmond, and so most of your life was involved in working, marriage, and the church. What kinds of things did you do for recreation?

N - Well, I've always been a religious person. Church and school .I take an active part in politics.

I - You say you took an active part in politics. Was it local politics? How did you participate?

N - I helped in bringing in votes.

I - So you helped in voter registration and getting people to the polls.

N -Yeah.

I -Your first wife, what kind of work did she do?

N -She did domestic work for the Whitlock family.

I -She worked for the family.

N -Yeah.

I -And did she clean house or keep the children.

N -Yes, she kept house and cooked.

I -In looking at Church Hill when you first came to Church Hill, and I'm thinking that was probably around 1920's, 1930's.

N - 1925 when I first came here.

I - Well, that's probably around the same time that the tunnel caved in.

N - That's right. I had been through there that very same day.

I - You had?

N - Yeah.

I - So you remember the tunnel caving in.

N - Certainly. Somewhere around 10 and 11 o'clock. That morning I had been through on a foot car through the tunnel during somewhere around 12 o'clock the news came that the tunnel had caved in. I was on the other side.

I - So you went through the tunnel.

N - Yes sir. That same day.

I - Well that's interesting. I had heard that it caved in, but I never was sure whether anyone had gone through it or whether they were trying to open it up ...

N - Yes sir. I had went through it that same day. That morning between 8 and 9 o'clock.

I - You were mighty lucky to get through it. So around that time you came to Church Hill, and I would take it that much of Church Hill was still rural. You know people had cows and pigs.

N - There was a different feel .

I - How were people, I asked you the question about segregation and you said for the most part you did pretty much what you wanted to do. What was your relationship with white people?

N - It was always, from a child up I been friendly with them and they been friendly with me.

I - What do you think made your life that way. Why do you think you got along so well with them.

N - I was loved by most everybody and I have been trustworthy all my life ever since I was a child. That's one thing about it. And I got along with everybody. I never had any trouble in my lifetime, so far as jail, trouble and arrest. I never been arrested in my life; got along with everybody.

I - So, you think it was your character that was developed because of your religious .....

N - Got along with everybody white or colored.

I - Well, that's interesting. I ask that question because we're interested in seeing ways that we can look at the past and make the future a little bit better. And if being a person of character is one of the ngredients, then we need to examine that, and begin to teach our children to be people of character, to be trustworthy and to be honest and friendly. And so I'm glad that you know that's your assessment of it, because I think it is very important that we get that kind of message over to the young people. Is there anything that you'd like to see in Richmond, you've seen a lot. Is there anything that you would like to see happen in the next ten or twenty years.

N - I tell you what I'd like to see. I'd like to see people live together as people ought to live. Happy with one another, honest in living dealing with one another. I like to see that. That you can be trusted. Folks can trust you and you can trust them.

I - Men like Martin Luther King, I'm sure you've heard of him, Malcolm X, and these people .....

N - I've seen person and talk with them.

I - What do you think of people like that? Do you think they did any good by what they did?

N - Yes, I believe they did.

I - What good do you think they did?

N - Well one thing it interested some people, some it didn't. Some liked them and some didn't why because he was a man that looked upward. Not all people liked that. Some people just live to be in the world with the crowd. They don't care how they live, up or down. It don't make any difference to them.

I - So you feel that the fact that he had an upward look caused him to give positive vibes to certain people.

N - That's right.

I - The present situation in Richmond, you are a neighbor of the former Mayor Marsh, what do you think of all of that?

N - Well, one thing I think it showed people that all people could live and advance if they desire.

I - Do you think we will ever have a black governor, or a black President?

N - Yes. I believe that.

I- Do you have any idea how long that might take?

N- About ten years.

I- Ten years, you believe it'll be that soon.

N- Yeah.

I- Well, I hope you're right.

N- The management and everything of the city was white, but since that time it's been widely mixed. We've got a black mayor, superintendent of the schools.

I- Superintendent of the schools, we have a black fire chief. Just recently, we've got a black director of the state penitentiary, who came from Church Hill incidentally. I think he lived on Q Street at one time.

N - What's his name?

I - His name is, we called him Pete, his name is I can't think of it now. We called him Pete, he was in the Marine Corps, and we palled around together years ago. I read the article in the newspaper, it was in the Afro, I think. But we have made quite a bit of progress and you foresee us making a heck of a lot more. You foresee black people making a heck of a lot more progress.

N - Indeed so. I say in ten years time we're gonna have a governor in the state of Virginia.

I - That would be a gas. That would be like painting the White House brown. Well, I hope your prediction comes true. Is there anything particular you would like to talk about, something that I haven't asked you.

N - I don't know. I can't think of anything. I would like to see the time come that white and colored all live together as one family. That's one thing that I'd like to see.

I - So you would like to see blacks and whites looked at as Virginians or Richmonders or Americans and nothing more.

N - That's right. As human beings.

I - Well, I think if America is to be strong again, or as strong as it has been, that has to happen. We have to learn to accept each other as Richmonders and then we'll be able to truly say we're the greatest nation on the face of the earth.

N - You find, I may take birds, there certain birds that flock together they don't fight each other either, there are certain others that won't join or follow them but they all mingle together. And we get to the point that we can allow the other man to rise high as he can and don't put strings on him to hold him back, we can advance and all of us can live together as one family. That is what I hope to see. Not for one man to think that his color made him better than the other man such as that. But we all are human beings. All of us oughta be able to live together as a family. Any family as you find that all the children are recognized the father as the father of them all, some blacks, some brown but all of them belong to the same family.

I - So you think that as a successful family relationship, that should be our relationship to God.

N - Yes.

I - That's interesting. The other day I read the story of Abraham in the Bible and that's what came to mind when you were saying that. He was sort of the father of the... the whole religious foundation.

N - The whole race of people but all of them strong from that one, and all become as one family. And I hope and pray that the day will come when we all can live together as one family of people. White, colored, blue, gold, gray it doesn't make any difference as long as we can live without one frightening the other. Stop thinking that because I'm black or white, I'm greater than the other. But all belong to the same kind of people. We all are human, and we all belong father of all of us.

I - So, you tend to sound very religious in your talking, what do you think of other religious groups? How do you account for the differences in most religious groups?

N - Well, I think it's cause one thinks their better than the other.

I - So you think it's ego more than anything else.

N - Yeah. Just think their better because sometimes one man thinks he is greater than the other man cause they have two more dollars than the other man. Money doesn't all together make greatness. Principles is the thing that advance you. When you live upright and just in your dealing with one another that's the thing that advance you not the amount of money you have. Plenty men have money and they're hated by everybody. He thinks that because he has a dollar he has to trample on the other man, but I don't think that. I don't think God blessed them to have it. I think it mean that he should distribute and recognize the other man that he ain't got but five cent. Recognize him as a human being. That's what I believe in.

I - That's interesting. That's very interesting. Marriage, what do you think of it. You've been married three times, what do you think of the institution of marriage? Would you recommend it for the young people.

N - I tell you, ain't nothing greater than it. I had three wives and I out lived them all, but they were all great women. My second wife only lived two years, and my first wife lived 25 years. We lived together.

I - So you think marriage is a wonderful institution.

N - Indeed it is. You recognize it as a family relationship one working with the other one for the advancement of the other, we get along.

I - Again, it seems that your foundation, your philosophy of life, came out of the church. And you mentioned you joined the church in Studely, who was the pastor there?

N - John Lewis Brown.

I - What kind of man was he?

N - Fine. A man that was loved by most everybody that knew him.

I - What other people shaped your life? What other men or women? What about your parents?

N - Well, my parents were religious people.

I - What were their names?

N -Mother's name was Smith. My father's Roane.

I -What was your mother's first name?

N -Kitty, Katherine Smith. Most people called her Kitty.

I -And your father's name was William.

N -William. That's right.

I -And they were born in Studely, VA?

N -My daddy was born down near King & Queen.

I -Were either one of your parents slaves?

N -No. My father, I think, was born shortly after slavery.

I -So to your knowledge, your parents were not slaves.

N -No. My mother and father, neither one, but they were children of slave parents.

I -Do you know anything about your grandparents?

N -No not much. I had only seen my grandmother about three times in my lifetime.

I -Do you remember her name? Huh. - Do you remember your grandmother's name?

N - I can't recall ... Frances.

I - Frances. And what was he last name?

N - Garnett.

I - Frances Garnett.

N - Yeah.

I - And she came from down in King & Queen?

N - King & Queen.

I - That's interesting. My grandparents were Gardners and they were from around here somewhere. I understand there was a big snow in, I believe 1922 or there abouts, do you remember that.

N - I heard about it, but I was too young to know much about it. But I heard about that snow.

I - There was a flu epidemic, influenza, in 1918 and school was closed down.

N - I remember that though.

I - You remember that?

N - Yeah.

I - Did you get the flu during that time.

N - No, I escaped it somewhat. I don't remember taking sick. Sunday I think it was can't exactly think of all people's names and they told me what to take for it and I did that and I got along all right.

I - Did you have a family doctor?

I - Yeah.

I - What was his name?

N - Dr. Durdrig.

I - Do you remember his first name?

N - [Np], I can't say.

I - How long was he your doctor?

N - Long about ten years.

I - And did you have other doctors?

N - No, I don't think I ever had a doctor other than Dr. Durdrig. Dr. T. K. Redd,

I had him for different things, Dr. Parker ...

I - Dr. Parker from over ..... that they named the ballpark after?

N - Yeah.

I -He was a fine man.

N -Yeah.

I -And I think this was Whilliam H. Parker.

N -That's right.

I -That's interesting. Were you interested in sports as a young man? Were you interested in baseball and that kind of thing.

N - Yeah.

I - I understand that he was too, and the he ...

N - He was the head of baseball he trained the young boys to play baseball at a place called Burley's Hill.

I - CCA ballpark. At CCA ballpark?

N - Yeah.

I - I think that was Christ Church Association.

N - Trained boys to play ball and that such a thing.

I -There's a Dr. Hicks who practices in, Horace Hicks, he practices in Highland Springs. Do you know him?

N - I've heard of him.

I - He was the one that first told me about Dr. Parker being associated with athletics over at Burley's Hill.

N - That's right. Dr. Parker, I know he was instigational, the building up for him on Church Hill. 20th Street.

I - That's interesting. The whole purpose of this interview is to pick out and sort of get an idea of how people related to each other and what kinds of things people did, whether they were white or whether they were black and sort of get a picture so we can reconstruct that kind of thing in Church Hill again.

N - Dr. Parker, I don't think there was better man amongst colored and white than Dr. Parker was. He was loved by white and colored because he was a man that wanted to bring all the people together. White boys and colored boys and all played in the CCA park around Church Hill, Dr. Parker was the head of all of it.

I - That's interesting.

N - Did you know him?

I - No sir, I didn't. I remember CCA Ballpark. I used to go out there and watch some of the games and I used to go out there to the carnivals that they had out there.

N - Yeah, that's right. All the big carnivals come here out there in that park before it was built up. It was on that spot of land out there because it was a big vacant place there, as time went on they just built it up. And closed it up. You understand fenced it in. And they had circuses and carnivals that sometimes stayed there a week at the time. I've known them stay there more than a week.

I - They said Burley Hill was named after a lady, a white lady, who owned a grocery store. Did you know her?

N - Yes.

I - What kind of person was she?

N - Fine.

I - Fine person.

N - She was a German...

I -German lady?

N -Yeah. Burleys.

I -You said the Housgrove?

N -

I -Hargrave?

N -Yeah.

I -Hargrave. Why would they pick her to name a hill after? Did she do anything special? Was she especially attractive?

N - That was nothing but a field out there and the Burleys bought, the Hargraves and the Burleys bought up the land and that is why they call it Burley's Hill. And, if I'm not mistaken that's what they call it now.

I - Well it was called that when I grew up. I don't know if they refer to it by that name anymore, but it was called that when I grew up.

N - Burley's Hill. I lived on that, on Burley's Hill on 19th Street. 2514 19th Street.

I - And you also lived in the Buchannan Street area?

N - Yeah.

I -What was that like?

N -Well, that was school was there.

I -You're talking about Buchannan Street School.

N -Yeah. And that school right down the street here now. Moved from Church Hill on Buchannan Street.

I - Do you remember some of the families that lived on Buchannan Street when You were there? Do you remember Naomi Lewis' parents?

N - Yes. He worked for down at Dr. Scott's. That's where he worked down at Dr. Scott's.

I - Pharmacy?

N - Yeah.

I - Scott's Pharmacy down in the 17th Street Market area.

N- Yeah.

I- You say her father worked for him.

N- Yeah.

I- Who were some of the other families down there?

N- The man who run the market down there. I can see it but just can't remember.

I- Wasn't Brauer was it? Otto Brauer.

N- He had stall in the market. Yeah he was in the meat market.

I- What about the Roots family?

N- Oh, they were all right. They were kinda of a religious family.

I- The father was pastor at one time of Bethlehem Baptist Church.

N- Bethlehem Baptist Church. Lived up on Cedar Street at the time. Well, wait the father was either pastor of Bethlehem or Cedar Street, I forgot.

N- I think he was the pastor of Cedar Street and they moved out from Cedar Street to Buchannon.

I- They moved into what used to be Union Station, Methodist Church. Which in itself has a long long history. Did you ever have on occasion to go up on Maddox Hill? Were there there any blacks living on Maddox Hill?

N - Yeah. All together black. The only white family there was George Gifford.

I - What did he do, do you remember?

N- He run the store.

I- He ran a store, up on Maddox Hill?

N- Yeah.

I- So, most of the people who lived up on Maddox Hill were black is that what you're saying.

N- Yes, that's right.

I- I had a different impression. I can remember in the forties, the dump, I think it was the city dump, and up on that hill there were a lot of white youths that used to throw rocks down at us as we went down the dump road. And I got the impression that most of the people that lived up there were white. But you're saying that most of them that lived up there were black.

N - Yeah. The white and the black used to get together in the evening and throw rocks down at us to have battles. They have battles with one another.

I - Well, Dr. Hicks was telling me the same thing, he lived across Venable Street. And they would throw rocks down at the guys at Carrington Street. Kids would throw rocks down at the black kids down at Carrington Street.

N - Yeah, they had battles with each other.

I - So it seemed like that was more or less protecting your turf more than really trying to hurt anybody. It was just boys being boys.

N - Sometimes we'd make them run, and sometimes they'd make us run.

I - Union Hill and places, Mary Scott Wingfield mentions Union Hill and Shad Town, and Church Hill, in your growing up and in your working years do you remember much about Shad Town.

N - No, I don't know. I've heard much about it.

I - What about Union Hill? That's over wher Cedar Street Church is now. Did you have an occasion to go over in there much?

N - Yeah. But as long as I've lived in the City of Richmond from boyhood up until now, never had moments trouble from nobody since I've been on the hill. And I'm 100 years old now.

I - So you see your life in Richmond, your life in general as being one of free of any serious conflicts between anybody.

N - I ain't have no trouble with nobody. And I believe that we can live together now as one family of people more so we are more enlightened now.

I - You fell we're more enlightened now. And therefore we should be able to get along better.

N - At one time the Burley's and the Hargraves did more to bring people together than any other white family in the City of Richmond. `Cause I remember Mrs. Bowlen ... Burley's Hill that was built up. That was a field and the Hargraves and the Burleys bought that field and that is why it is called Burley's Hill right now. Mrs. Burley lived over on 20th and Short P Street, they run the grocery store.

I - I think a building is still there, I don't know if it's the same building but it's a building still there. So you said they were kind to black people ...

N - Indeed, they all lived together. I dealt with the Bowlens for years and years. Mrs. Bowlen owned a house and Mrs. Sylvia Thompson lived right along there and shortly afterward the Bowlings and Hargraves I believed they sold, and I believe that Sylvia Henderson bought a portion of the land from them.

I - Do you remember, I believe it was Boze Lumberyard?

N - Yeah.

I - Did you ever have to buy any lumber from them or anything like that.

N - Yeah. When I was on Richmond Street I bought lumber from Boze to build up my house. I bought a lot over on Richmond Street and bought lumber from Boze to build my home. I built my home up on Richmond Street.

I - Did you?

N - Yeah.

I - Ah. So you were kind of handy with your hands.

N -Yeah. Oh yeah. I was a carpenter by trade.

I -So you built your own home or you added on to it.

N -I built my own home. I knew a man who wuilt a brick foundation, I can't recall his name just now, but he was a man who worked for the Boze.

I - And these Bowles, G. W. G. Bowles, there's a Bowle's Construction Company that has a lot of trucks on the street ..... E. G. Bowles I think it is.

N -

I know Henry Lipscomb bought Bowle's Mechanicsville.

I - What about Beckstoffer, did you have any dealings with them?

N - Yeah. He's still running the business now.

I - Yeah. Did you ever have any dealing with them?

N- Oh yeah. I bought lumber from Beckstoffer to build my house.

I- What kind of man, or what kind of family were they?

N- They were friendly.

I- Very friendly.

N- Friendly people. They run a business and all the people around there bought lumber from Beckstoffer and I don't know if he run, I know the old man ain't living, but I guess ...

I - I think his son, one of his sons, or some of the sons are still living.

N - Yeah, and running the business now. The little house set right on 28th Street used to be the office at one time.

I - You say they still run the business.

N - Yeah, I think Beckstoffer still running that. I bought lumber from them many times.

I - So, as far as you're concerned, they were a pretty nice family.

N - Yeah. I don't have no trouble all they look for was their money. Whatver they sold you they expected you to pay for and I bought lumber from them many times. I first bought a couple of lots on Richmond Street and built up my own house. A five room house then. The City take that property and I moved over on 31st Street. And I got a home on 31st Street now.

I - Yeah, I went by there the other day looking for you, cause I came by here and knocked on the door and nobody answered and Mrs. Evans had gone out and I went around and they told me to come back and see if the car was out front, and if the car was out front that she was here and if not that she was probably gone somewhere. And when I did come back, I found thecar here but I know where your house is on 31st Street.

N - 1211 N. 31st Street.

I - James Barrett belonged to Mt. Olivet Baptist Church. Did you know him?

N - Yeah I know the Barretts.

I - They lived on Leigh Street?

N - Yeah they lived on Leigh Street their family up there I think all of them are dead ....

I - I think there's a daughter, I think his daughter Mrs. Eagleson she married Lemuel Eagleson. She's still living. He was supposed to, according to her, been the first, or one of the first, black postmen in Richmond. And that block that they lived in was thought of as being sort of an exclusive block for black people to live in. I understand that he was .... That was Buck Pollard's brother.

N - Yeah.

I - I don't remember him, I remember Buck Pollard, but Joe Pollard was a lawyer.

N - Yeah, that's right.

I - And he started the Lilly Black Party or something like that back in 1920's and, I think, ran for Governor or Lt. Governor or something...

N - Lived right down on Buchannan Street.

I - Did he?

N - Yeah.

I - His daughter Leah Pollard is still living and his niece, Gladys Brown, who was Buck Pollard's daughter is still living. And I talked to Gladys Brown on the phone ...

N - Buck was a lawyer wasn't he?

I - No, Buck was a shoe repairman. Joe was the lawyer. I've been trying to find out something about that block. They used to call the Pollard Block where the East End Library is now, and there was a confectionery that Buck Pollard, or his father, or one or the other owned. And Buck Pollard had a shoe repair shop right on the corner.

N - Right down on the corner.

I - Right. Well, my father and Buck Pollard were good friends and that's how I got to know him. He used to carry me by there and they would play checkers and dominoes and stuff like that. Some of the other old families, the Murrays is an old family, they've lived on 24th Street. Did you know them?

N -Yeah.

I -William Murray, and Emma Murray. And they claim that they lived there as far back as 150 years ago. In that same block and their granddaughter is still living in that block.

N -What's her name?

I -Elsie Robinson.

N -Oh yeah.

I -Elsie Purnell Robinson.

N -Oh yeah, she belong to Mt. Olivet Church.

I -Right. And I've been trying to, I found that her grandfather was born in 1840, but it didn't say exactly where he was born as far as the block he was born.

It said he was born in Henrico County. And I've been trying to find evidence, cause she believes that he was born in the 1200 block of 24th Street, and I've been trying to find evidence of that. That's a long time for one family to stay in the same block.

N - But still some of the offspring are there in that section now.

I -Right. That is an interesting family as well because, I think, her uncle, Mrs. Robinson's uncle, was one of the ones that started Mahnatten Cab Company. They were down at Main Street Station, and they got involved in a coop of some kind to try to pool their resources.

N -They organized the Manhatten Cab Company.

I -Right. Well, Mr. Roane, I don't want to wear out my welcome, I appreciate you taking this time to talk to us and to allow us to take your picture, and is there anything else that you would like to share with us.

N - No, one thing I can say I'm glad ya'll came here and I appreciate your coming. And I hope to meet you again.

I - Well yes sir, it's a pleasure to be in your company. You seem to be a man of wisdom.

N - Thank you and you may come again.

I - Well, I would love that. I would enjoy coming back.

N - Come back and we can spend a little more time together and be better aquainted with each other.

I - Next time I come I'm gonna bring you a cigar.

N - I would appreciate that. Cause I was a great smoker. I worked in a cigar company, factory for a good while I worked for the American Company for best portion of my working life. From Whitlock's to P. Lorillord. It was 46 years in one place. Never had no trouble. Not one thing

I worked for the P. Lorillord and Company and it changed hands and the last company which I draw a pension from now is P. Lorillord Company. They were people I grew up under. I worked for Whitlock and P. Lorillord 46 years.

I - That's quite an experience. Did most of the people you knew work in the tobacco factories.

N - That was the greatest work most of the people had to do. There was American Tobacco Company and there was Whitlock's. That was the greatest enterprise that I know that hired people. I know at one time there were 600 people work for those two factories.

I -And this was black and white?

N -Black and white. And all of them work together. I never heard them having fussing among each other they got along like one family. There was only one thing that separted them and that was across the street at 24th and 25th Street, that's the only thing that I know that separated them. One [brunch] was on one side of the street and the other was on the other.

I - And you're saying that blacks worked on one side of the street and the whites on the other?

N - No, no. They had two factories. All of them mingled with black and white from one side to ... one part they call 24th Street.

I -You spent a great deal of your time down in what they call "tobacco row."

N - That's right. Yeah, I worked that's where I worked down there...from Main Street down to 26th Street for 46 years.

I - You mentioned your religious up-bringing and so on, it seems that drugs have destroyed a lot people's respect for each other. If you had your way, how would you deal with the drug problem in Church Hill.

N - Well, I'll tell you, I would try to bring them together as one family. That's what I would like to see done. I would like to see that done again, it can be done, and I hope and pray that I may live long enough to see that happen.

I - So you think that these people who are into drugs is because they've lost their sense of family.

N -T heir family union. I hope that will survive and that little plant until it grows to be a tree.

I - That's interesting. I heard a sermon by Alex James about the acorn being planted upside down, but it had sense enough to turn itself upright to grow upright, and that if we as people stayed within our true nature we would be just like that tree and grow upright.

N - That's right. Become a great family of one union, one with the other.

I -Well, we certainly hope the same and we're doing this because we believe it can be done, but people have to believe and understand that it had been done and it can be done again.

N - Not one try to trample on the other but all of them live together as one family. It can be done.

I - Well, we've got more that a mouthful here, I think we've got a philosophy that one can use for lifetime, certainly you have, and I'm mighty grateful to you sir.

N - Thank you.

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