Transcript of Interview with Mrs. Elsie Purnell Robinson, March 11, 1982.
Living in Church Hill (Dog Bottom). This is an interview with Mrs. Elsie Purnell Robinson, retired Directress of The Linwood Robinson Senior Center, active community worker, prominent church worker, property owner, long time neighbor. Mrs. Robinson talks about life in the 24th Street area of Church Hill known as Dog Bottom for many years. Mrs. Robinson's family, maternal grandparents, William and Emma Murray, were one of the first families to build in this area. This interview was conducted March 11, 1982 in the home of Mrs. Elsie P. Robinson at 1204 North 24th Street.
Mensah: How long have your family been in this area?
Robinson: Well, going back to my grandparents, I would say for 150 years.
Mensah: About 150 years?
Robinson: Right in one block on one street. 24th Street.
Mensah: What was your..what were the names of your grandparents?
Robinson: Emma and William Murray.
Mensah: Emma and William Murray? And these were your maternal grandparents on your mother side?
Robinson: Yes.
Mensah: And they to your knowledge, were the first of your ancestors to live in the area.
Robinson: The first that I remember.
Mensah: And they..they lived on 24th Street?
Robinson: Yes.
Mensah: Where on 24th Street?
Robinson: 1217 North 24th Street.
Mensah: Were they ever in slavery or were they born free?
Robinson: Yes. Both of my grandparents were slaves from what I understand, and from some of the thing that thev have told me.
Mensah: Uh, did they build a home?
Robinson: Yes. They built a brick home, two story brick home when they were first married. And they added to it as the family grew.
Mensah: How large a family did they have?
Robinson: I understand there were 14 children born to that marriage but all of them did not live. Some died early, but to my recollection there were 5 girls and 4 boys!
Mensah: 5 girls and 4 boys?
Robinson: 4 boys. Yes.
Mensah: And of the girls, one of the girls was your mother?
Robinson: My mother was the youngest.
Mensah: The youngest of all?
Robinson: Of all.
Mensah: And uh, your mother married who?
Robinson: Joseph Purnell, Jr.
Mensah: And of that marriage, you were one of the children?
Robinson: Yeah. There were 5 children born. I was next to the oldest.
Mensah: And you were born when?
Robinson: November the 15th 1913.
Mensah: And this is of course, on 24th Street?
Robinson: Yes. I was born in my grandmother's house. When I was 2 years old, my father built two doors from my grandparents.
Mensah: So that would have been, 1913?
Robinson: 1213 North 24th.
Mensah: And this was around what ... what time? Do you have any idea?
Robinson: Well, I would say it was 1915 that he built.
Mensah: Do you know anything about your father's parents?
Robinson: My grandmother on my father's side died when I was very young. I only remember seeing her after she was dead. But my grandfather lived with my father in his late years until his death and he was a barber. And he was never a slave from what he told us because he..he said free issue and he had his own business.
Mensah: What was his name?
Robinson: Joseph Purnell, Sr.
Mensah: And what kind of business was he in?
Robinson: He was... had a barbershop. The late years his barbershop was on Brook Avenue.
Mensah: Did ... do you know an address or .....
Robinson: No, I don't know the address, but uh, I remember going to the barbershop. And I still have a mirror in my living room that came out of his barbershop.
Mensah: Uh, and your grandmother, you said had passed when you were young?
Robinson: Yes.
Mensah: Uh, her name was what?
Robinson: Cora.
Mensah: Cora Purnell. And were they from this area? 24th Street area?
Robinson: No, my grandfather's home was in Granite, Virginia. And my grandmother, I always heard my daddy say was born in Louisanna.
Mensah: And they came to Richmond, where did they live?
Robinson: They lived at 12 ... 1200 block North 32nd. I don't remember the exact address.
Mensah: Okay uh. Your father and mother resided at 1213 uh, 24th Street, and this is where you grew up?
Robinson: Yes.
Mensah: Where did you go to school?
Robinson: I went to school at George Mason for my elementary education, and Armstrong High School for my high school education.
Mensah: Where you ever taught by ah, Reverend Bowler; J. Andrew Bowler? What kind of person was he? Everybody seems to say he was such a nice person.
Robinson: Well ....
Mensah: Anything bad ever said about him?
Robinson: Not that I know of. We told... that children in this community thought very highly of Reverend Bowler, not only did he teach school but he was the..also the pastor of the church that I attended. Church that he founded, Mount Olivet Baptist Church.
Mensah: And Mount Olivet was located on 25th Street?
Robinson: 25th and "S" Street.
Mensah: So going to school and in growing up your elementary school days, what was life like in Church Hill? And I understand they called this area Dog Bottom. What was it like growing up in Dog Bottom?
Robinson: Well, in Dog Bottom, as far as I remember that name went back years before I was born because I understand everybody in this community owned dogs, and they were very noisy, loud and noisy (bell rings). Well the community uh, social life, the church was the main ... was the focal point. Uh, everybody worked and raised their children and everybody elses' children. Anything that the children would do and another parent saw them do it, that was not right, they had the permission to make the correction right on the spot. Uh, we were a very close knit community where neighbor helped neighbor. There were no real rich people in the community. All modern... mod ... model... modest living people and people worked for what they got and it was a safe neighborhood. We could feel assured when we went to bed at night. If we left anything out it would be there the next morning. Nobody bothered anything. There were a few drunks but they didn't bother, as far as stealing anything. People raise their own vegetables and chickens. My grandmother had ducks, and the law was not as strict on the animals. There were horses and cows in thecommunity.
Mensah: I understand it was probably around 1906 that this area, north of Venable Street became the city.
Robinson: Well, that was before my time (with laughter) 1906.
Mensah: I can...was just wondering, you know, was it during your time ... was it still pretty much rural?
Robinson: Yes, it was still pretty rural because we didn't get a lot of the city conviences until later. The streets were dirt streets, a few sidewalks with curbs and gutters. The main streets were cobble stone. 25th Street was cobble stone. Carrington Street had cobble stone.
Mensah: Was Carrington Street cobble stone when you were a child? Or was it done ....
Robinson: Carrington Street looks today like it did when I was a child. I can't remember any new homes being built on Carrington Street or any widening of the streets, no city improvements, maybe a few lights have gone up. It looks now just like it did when I was a child. 5
Mensah: And you say 25th Street was also cobble stone?
Robinson: Yes. I remember the police that rode horses, some rode bicycles and you could hear the horses hoofs on the cobble stones as they went up and down the streets.
Mensah: You mentioned that people worked basically, and went to church on Sundays. What kind of work, for example, what kind of work did your grandparents do, the Murrays?
Robinson: My grandfather worked in the tobacco factory.
Mensah: Which ... which..uh..
Robinson: Now, I don't know which one but I know it was down in the ... in Tobacco Row. My grandmother did washing and ironing in her home for a living. My mother did too, and her other daughters. Some women went out for days work, or worked in private homes. My father was a ... did janitorial work. (Both says "Er.." at the same time). I'm sorry. There were a few uh, black businesses over here like fish markets uh, small grocery stores. Some ....
Mensah: Can you recall the names of any of them?
Robinson: There were ... was Browns Fish Market, the father of Dr. Felix Brown.
Mensah: Where was that located?
Robinson: On 25th Street, in the 1000 block near
Mensah: And you say that was the father of Dr. Felix Brown?
Robinson: (at same time) Dr. Felix Brown. And the West Fish Market was on "P" Street between 25th and 26th. Two brothers operated that business. Uh, there were one or two beauty shops. Uh, there was one or two neighborhood grocery stores. Small grocery stores. One of my uncles was an undertaker and his business was on 25th Street in the 1200 block.
Mensah: And what was his name?
Robinson: Eugene Murray.
Mensah: Eugene Murray had a funeral parlor on 25th Street?
Robinson: 25th Street. Yes.
Mensah: What was the name of the parlor? Do you recall it?
Robinson: Murray's Funeral Home. I had one uncle who ... Charles Murray who had a transfer business. Well, I call it transfer, they would move people when they needed to be moved.
Mensah: And this uncle uh, who had the transfer business, where did he live?
Robinson: He lived on "P" Street between 30th and 31st.
Mensah: Did he do any other things other than the transfer business?
Robinson: Yes, he had a barbershop. He was not a barber. He would rent the chairs out to other barbers but he had the barbershop. And later, after the barbershop closed he had a service station.
Mensah: And these were where? The barbershop and the service station?
Robinson: The barbershop was on "P" Street in the front of his home. His family lived behind and over top of the barbershop. The service station was across the street.
Mensah: So this would be the 30 hundred block of "P" Street probably?
Robinson: "P" Street. Yeah.
Mensah: And the service station was in the 29 hundred block?
Robinson: Yes.
Mensah: What..is that ... he seems like he was a pretty busy man, endeavored in several different areas. Was there anything else that he did?
Robinson: Well, to earn a living for the family, I don't know that Uncle Charles did anything else but he..what he was engaged in kept him busy and he has a son who is still in business, who picked up his father's tr.... uh, like to be in business himself supporting and he is in business now for himself on Marshall Street.
Mensah: You mentioned uh, some time ago that you had an uncle who was involved in the taxi business?
Robinson: That was an uncle by marriage, Charles Washington. He married one of my mother's sisters and they lived in the 1300 block on 25th Street. I remember him having a 7 passenger Buick and he used it for taxi business around Main Street Station.
Mensah: Is there a ... possible year that this happened?
Robinson: Uh..years fail me. I can't remember what year he was in business. But that's the only business that I have ever ... only type of occupa- tion I've...I ever knew Uncle Charlie to have.
Mensah: Well, can we put it between the first world war and the second world war? Would that ....
Robinson: Oh yes. I know he was there during the first world war.
Mensah: And this taxi business, did it grow or ... ?
Robinson: Yes, there were several men who did the same thing down at Main Street Station that Uncle Charlie was doing and they later, from what I understand, combined their business and started the Manhattan Taxi Service.
Mensah: So, Charles Washington and some associate, uh ......
Robinson: Yeah.
Mensah: Got together and out of that association uh ... Manhattan Cab Company was started.
Robinson: Yes.
Mensah: What about your growing up in Dog Bottom on Church Hill? Uh, there were some prominent families uh, meat packers, and dairymen in this area. Did you ever come in contact with them?
Robinson: Yes. As a child I knew of the Beauers who had a meat business. They had a slaughter house and that was in the 1500 ... no 1400 block 25th Street and further up the street were the Hechlers, who were also in the same type of business. They were butchers. I remember as a child they use to drive cows from the train downtown up Fairmount Avenue to Beauers to be slaughtered. They would come on hoof, walking up the street.
Mensah: How old would you say you were than?
Robinson: Well, between 7 and 9 years old.
Mensah: And they would drive them up to Beauers you say and ....
Robinson: Yes.
Mensah: That's where they were slaughtered?
Robinson: Right.
Mensah: Did you ever visit in any of these places or was it just more or less a child watching the cows go by? Did..where you ever ...
Robinson: I never visited the slaughter house. We would walk by the Hechlers' estate and see the cows grazing in the... in pasture they would call it. After I grew up and was a teenager I had the opportunity of working in the Hechlers' home for a few months.
Mensah: What kind of people were they? Were they...
Robinson: They were good neighbors. They were very nice to the people around the community. They were very liberal. 8
Mensah: And did ... this was the same family after whom the Hechler Village is named in Henrico?
Robinson: I assume so. I don't know. We called one of 'em 9 and the name still is recorded with the city as Beauers Lane. And we called up where the Hechlers' lived, Hechlers Lane. And right now the street is buffered off at a certain point. The city has never cut a street through there to continue 25th Street.
Mensah: Okay, uh. In your growing up, and your experiences with your grandparents, were there any other families that you were exposed to or came in contact with?
Robinson: Yes. In this block on the corner of 24th and Fairmount Avenue was a family of Howards. In the 1300 block 24th Street was a family of Johnsons, and there were two families of Johnsons. One Mr. Johnson had a horse and wagon on the street. I remember him very well, Mr. Andrew Johnson. Further up were the Meekins. They lived there ... they still have one daughter living in the same house.
Mensah: And this is the 1300 block?
Robinson: 1300 block 24th Street. Urn, in the house that I'm living now was a family of 5 sisters and a father name Jones. They were all very progressive women. School teachers.
Mensah: And this is 1205 ..... ?
Robinson: 1205 24th Street. Uh, on 25th Street, at 25th and "T" was a large family of Carters. At 25th and "S" was Mr. Willie Singleton, a very prominent man in the community and everybody looked up to him.
Mensah: What kind of work did Mr. Singleton do?
Robinson: Mr. Singleton was employed in the post office.
Mensah: There was a family of the Dandridges I believe uh ....
Robinson: Yes, the Dandridges were also residence of 25th Street. The children I remembered grew up in the 1300 block of 25th Street (bell rings). Urn, Mr. Dandridge was also a postal employee. He was a delivery man or mail carrier as we called them. There were 3 sons. The oldest boy was named for his father, Alpheus Dandridge, Robert, and Lorenzo. The mother was Mrs. Bessie Dandridge. They were Methodist members of the Asbury Methodist Church. There on 25th and "R" Street were the Pollards. Uh, uh, we called him Mr. Buck Pollard. I don't remember Mr. Pollard's real name but everybody in the community referred to him as Buck Pollard
Mensah: Could it have been Isiah Pollard?
Robinson: Could have been. As a child we repeated what we heard. And he had a wife and one daughter, Gladys. Gladys would be about my age.
Mensah: And would her name still be Pollard?
Robinson: No, she is ah, Brown. She is now Mrs. Gladys Brown. She is not living on Church Hill now. But when... she had no children.
Mensah: What kind of business does Mr. Pollard have?
Robinson: Shoe repair shop.
Mensah: So he repaired shoes.
Robinson: Yeah.
Mensah: Is ... I understand that he in someway was responsible for the development of Bungalow City. Do you know anything about that?
Robinson: I knew they moved from Church Hill to Bungalow City and we would see them at church. But I never visited their home or anything but he was always self employed.
Mensah: In your travels uh, in this area and out of the area, uh, did you ever have to go across Broad Street for anything? I understand that predominately uh, black population lived in a well defined area. Did you ever have to go out of the area, say across "Q" Street or across .... ?
Robinson: We would cross "Q" Street. Now the bank, it was the State Planters Bank, was at 25th and Broad and that's as far as I remember going. My mother would take us there when she would go to make a deposit at the State Planters Bank. Everybody had Christmas saving clubs during that time. And we would go down with mama for that and we would go to 25th and "Q" to do our grocery shopping at the A & P. And also on 25th between "Q" and Russell was a dry good store we would go there and shop for small items.
Mensah: Do you remember the name of that store?
Robinson: Schribergers.
Mensah: Schribergers?
Robinson: At 25th and ssss and 26th and "Q" was a drug store, Eatons Pharmacy and we used that for... to buy medicine and drugs. Well, there was a cleaners on 25th Street, Youngs Cleaners. Uh, there's a fish market in that business now. That's the same site as that as the cleaners.
Mensah: And this is the 1000 block, 1100 block or something?
Robinson: 1000 block of 25th Street.
Mensah: Do you have any idea how far... how extensive Dog Bottom was? What area it covered? Just generally.
Robinson: Well, I know "T" Street was the boundary line going north because beyond "T" Street was undeveloped and Carrington Street was the boundary line going south, I would think. And Dog Bottom ran from 23rd to about 27th.
Mensah: And this was ....
Robinson: East to west.
Mensah: Alright. Basically where the Blacks in Church Hill ...
Robinson: Yes.
Mensah: ... mainly lived? Uh, for the most part. When you were in George Mason School what kind of things did you all do?
Robinson: Well, in George Mason we had one teacher for each class. There were no exchanging of classes for subjects. There were seven grades to that school. We had reading, writing, spelling, arithmetic, geo- graphy, social studies, and music.
Mensah: Were there many students in the class, uh, were there different grades in each class? Or...
Robinson: No there was one grade to each room. Yes the grades were..I mean the classes were filled, uh, as far as the seats were concerned, the capacity of the classroom...
Mensah: Would you say it was 15 or 30 students, or somewhere in the teens?
Robinson: I'd say there were about 30 students to a class. And we sat two to a seat. We did not have individual seats like the children have now. There were two students assigned to each seat. There were male and female teachers. [END OF TAPE]
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