Transcript of Interview with Mrs. Florence Robinson, December 27, 1913
This is Linda McGowan from the East End Think Action Committee. We will be doing an Oral History taping on Mrs. Florence Robinson at 1103 North 20th Street. Mrs. Robinson is a lifetime resident of Church Hill, born December 27, 1913.
I - Mrs. Robinson we would like to find out something about your family history, could you give us the names of your parents?
N - Well my parents were Pearlee Woodson and Mary Woodson.
I - What was your mother's maiden name?
N - Mary Smith.
I - Mary Smith Woodson, and your father's name was Pearlee. Where were they born, were they born in Richmond?
N - Well, my father was born in Richmond, but my mother was born in Lynchburg.
I - What about family living places, did your family basically live in Richmond or did you move here from a different place, any particular place?
N - No we lived in Richmond.
I - And your birth place was in Richmond, where was that?
N - 30th and Q. It was a confectionary on the corner and I lived, I was born next door to the confectionary.
I - What was that name of the confectionary?
N - William's Confectionary.
I - And what year was that?
N - 1913.
I - So you were born, what was that, December 27, 1913? How long did you live at 30th and Q?
N - I really don't know, my mother died when I was a year old, there, but I do not know how long we lived there after that.
I - What is the next residence that you can remember?
N - 31st and R Streets.
I - And do you know the exact address?
N - 1128 31st Street.
I - And how long at that residence?
N - I would say until I was about thirteen, I guess.
I - Was it just you and your father, or did you have any brothers and sisters?
N - No I did not have any brothers and sisters. Really my father did not live there after my mother died. I suppose he did remarry, but then I lived with this person until I was about thirteen years old.
I -What school did you attend as a young girl?
N - George Mason and Armstrong High.
I - Give me some names of some of your teachers at George Mason.
N - Beatrice Edmons, Mrs. Sally Collins, Victoria Ross, I think her first name was Victoria, I know she was Mrs. Ross. Mrs. Mines, I cannot think of her first name, and Reverend J. Andrew Bowler.
I - Who was the principal? Any other teachers from George Mason, what about Armstrong? Some of your teachers?
N - Mrs. Wingfield, she was my English teacher, I cannot think of her first name. Reverend Johnson, a Mr. Carnie, a Mrs. Carfield.
I - How old were you when you started Armstrong?
N - Seventeen.
I - You were seventeen when you started Armstrong, and how old were you when you started George Mason?
N -Seven.
I - You were seven. What about classmates at George Mason, how long did you stay at George Mason School, what about som of your friends?
N - I stayed at George Mason until I finished elementary school, which was the seventh grade.
I - And some of your friends in George Mason?
N - It was a Mary Saunders that I knew, Martha Woodson.
I - Now when you left the seventh grade you were how old?
N - I was six, seventeen, sixteen, I started high school at seventeen.
I - And how long did you stay at Armstrong?
N - Three and a half years.
I - Give us some friends of yours at Armstrong.
N - Ruby Ware, then I got to think. As I said, Mary Saunders. We all left George Mason and went there.
I - Is that Mary Saunderson?
N - No, Saunders.
I - Well just give me a feeling for how was it to go to school, back in those days. Tell me about your elementary days, what was your feeling about those?
N - Beautiful, well I only lived a half a block from the school and I would go to school and leave home in time enough to get there and be late, and we use to play on the playground and have a good time at recess time. We would share our lunches, see we would carry your own lunch and you would share your lunch with your friends and you would sit and talk and play I Spy in the day time now, and we would just have a good time.
I - What about in high school?
N - In high school you would--mostly day, I guess. And when I was going to high school there used to be a car-barn right there at 29th and P Streets.
I - What is a car-barn?
N - They used to have a Seven Pines Streetcar, that ran from this car-barn to Seven Pines. And a bunch of us would make it our business to wait until Seven Pines car come and we would all get on this streetcar, right at that corner, at 29th and P Streets, and sometime we would just kind of steal on it. You would not have spend your car ticket and see you would get behind some of these folks thats coming on there, you were kind of small, and you could easy ease by, but it was fun just to ride with those people we use to call from the country, you know, because they came from Seven Pines, and we would enjoy getting on there, just riding to school. It really was fun. Well we had to be at school at quarter to nine, which mean we leave home round ten minutes past eight.
I - What about school organizations? Were there many like, sororities, or frater- nities or high school varsity, you know?
N - No we did not have many extracurriculas, no, well in elementary school we had a thing every year, the whole school, and different other schools would go up to the City Auditorium, once a year and just sing, sing, sing.
I - And this was in elementary school?
N - Yes, we use to practice, like at George Mason, we would practice at George Mason, and what ever other school there was, then on a certain day we would all go to to the City Auditorium, that was up on Linden and Main, I guess that building is still there.
I - Yes, I think it is.
N - That's when that place would be full of nothing but school children, singing. And we would have fun there, too. And you would meet so many other friends and you did not know whether you were singing good or not, but you just sang. We did that in elementary school.
I - What about activities in high school?
N - Well, I was not in too much of the activities in high school. Were there any type of social clubs, community social clubs?
N - No, not really, there were clubs in the school system, but you had to be you, to belong to this club, you know, and all of us wasn't that somebody that belonged to that club.
I - So they sort of picked and choosed who they wanted.
N -Y es.
I - What about Church affiliation, what about your church affiliation as a young girl?
N - I've always loved being in church and doing church work and I always been at Fourth Baptist.
I - Were you baptized at Fourth Baptist?
N - Yes, at Fourth Baptist.
I - What year was that, or how old were you? Well, that might be easier.
N - Well, I was, I was, I think I was fifteen then.
I - You were fifteen when you joined Fourth Baptist.
N - Well I was in everything there.
I - Such as ...
N - Well I was in Sunday School. I sang in the choir, then my mother made me come out of there for being a Christian.
I - Who was the pastor during that time, when you were baptized?
N - Reverend Brown.
I - Reverend Brown was the pastor. What was his first name?
N - J. A., now whatever the J. A. was I did not know.
I - Reverend J. A. Brown.
N - Yes.
I - And you were in the choir, Sunday School.
N - And BTU, I was in.
I - What was BTU?
N - It was BYPU, then, that's what it was then, but later on it changed to BTU.
I - So BYPU was ...
N - Baptist Young People Union.
I - Then BTU was changed to ...
N - Baptist Training Union.
I - And what was that organization basically consisting of?
N - Well, it was a religious type. You would go there, you would remember Bible verses, and you would speak your Bible verse. And then you would sing, and somebody would pray, and then you had a teacher and Oscar Morton, the one that played the piano and taught us how to sing.
I - Do you remember any of your Sunday School teachers, and, that taught you, and choir directors?
N - Well, Mr. Carter was the choir director, and Rachel Courtney was one of my Sunday School teachers, and a Mr. Mingleton was one of my Sunday School teachers, Mable Williams was one of my Sunday School teachers, and I had a nother lady, I can't think, I don't know I can't think of who they was, but, I can remember four.
I - What about as a teenager. When you got into the BTU'S, and those were for older children, I assume.
N - Oh no, young ones
I - Oh really, all ages.
N - All ages. But most of the teenagers had charge of the program.
I - What about some of your friends, were they some of the same school mates?
N - School mates, yes. Veto Booker, Dora Golen and Mariamme White who lived on the block, Rosa Hammon. Now I can name folk.
I - Well since you naming people, were all of these people living in the neighborhood? Living in your block, or ?
N - Well , close would be from here out to my Church would be close, because we wouldn't call that a distance. I would, well I lived on 29th Street, and one of my friends lived on 34th, course going to 34th Street was just like going around the corner almost to me, because I was use to walking, right. That's all you knew what to do, was walk.
I - You've talked about living at 30th and Q, as a baby, right?
N - Well I can't remember anything there, I do know, I don't remember, but they tell me that my mother died while I was there. I don't remember that.
I - What about R, the next address, that was.
N - Well I was a young ...
I - 21, oh, 1128 31st Street.
N - Yes. OK. Well I don't remember doing anything, but played and...
I - Did you all had to use well water, or at that time, you had inside water, so you had bathrooms and running water.
N - That's right, running water.
I - That was when you were about how old, what age?
N - I was about . We had, what is this ...
I - A hand pump, you had a hand pump and you still had your outside toilets.
N - Yes.
I - And everybody had their own well, or some kind of access to water?
N - Yes, some kind of access to water.
I - And you were about how old?
N - About ten or eleven.
I - Do you remember any of the families that lived in your block?
N -What, on 31st Street?
I - Right.
N - The Brooks family, it was six or seven of those, Maggie Bingham, Sarah Day, Elizabeth Jude.
I - J-U-D-E.
N - Yes, they were in our block, and Thelma Booker. I can't remember too many folks across the street, but they were all on my side of the street.
I - How many houses were in that block?
N - Well, all that's in there now. I don't know how many it is, but I don't think a house in that block has been pulled down.
I - Oh really, you don't think a house in that block has been pulled down?
N - No, that's the 1100 block, every one of those houses is still there.
I - Oh, OK. What about businesses near where you lived?
N - Well there, when I was on 31st Street, there was one black guy, Mr. Judson Wood, I think his name was Judson, they had a son named Judson, I don't know what old man Wood name was.
I - OK. It was Wood, yes, what kind of business did they have?
N - Grocery store.
I - They had a grocery store.
N - And I mean the building is still there.
I - Well where is it located?
N - In the 1100 block on 31st Street. But I don't think none of that family is still involved.
I - Any other businesses in the neighborhood, back, I would say from your early childhood to teenage years, before you graduated, while you were in high school?
N - Now that is the only business that I can remember, that was on 31st Street. It was a store further down the street, in the 1200 block, I can't, that was a grocery store, but I can't remember who ran that store.
I - What about other more prominent businesses, do you remember any other in the neighborhood?
N - No, that was about all that, it was a barber shop, on R Street, and a Mr. Kina Williams ran that.
I - And what hundred block was that?
N - That was between 31st and 30th on R, which I am sure that would make it the 30 hundred block.
I - What happened to you after you graduated from high school? What did you do?
N - Well, when I graduated from high school, I was on 29th Street, then...
I - What was the address, do you remember?
N - 916. I- 916 North 29th Street.
N - Yes. I- And how long did you live there?
N - Until I got married.
I - And how many years was that?
N - Twelve, wait a minute, 42.
I - Oh you have been married 42 years. So you lived 916 North ...
N - But see 29th Street, but then we moved from there, because they pulled down the house where I lived, and then we moved to 28th Street.
I - All right, let me get this straight, when you were living at 916 North 29th Street, this was before you were married?
N - Yes.
I - OK. And you lived there how long before you got married?
N - I am sure it was eighteen years.
I - Eighteen years before you got married?
N- Yes.
I - OK, how old were you when you all moved to 29th Street?
N - Well you see now my aunt lived on 29th Street, and I lived on 31st Street, but then my aunt took me and raised me from then.
I - All right. How old were you when you moved there?
N - Thirteen.
I - You were thirteen, and you stayed there for about 18 years. OK. Were there any businesses or new families that you met over there on 29th Street?
N - Well it was the Bookers, the Greens, the Thompsons, the Pitchfords, and Emma Jackson, Mariamme White, Louise Glenn. I met all these. These were neighbors on 29th Street.
I - Any businesses?
N - There was a store up on the corner, there was a grocery store up on the corner of 29th and 0. And it was Donny's Printshop at 29th and P and on the other corner it was a bakery, Bernstein's, I think, but it was a bakery. And a drugstore on the other corner, where the car-barn was, that was 29th and P and over on, I can't give you no directions.
I - Right.
N - It was a confectionary, well an Italian ran this fruit stand, on ...
I - An Italian run fruit stand, and you said something about a confectionary.
N - Well all that was a fruilt stand and a confectionary all combined.
I - Do you remember their names?
N - No.
I - That was all around 29th and P. So you stayed at 29th and P, until about 20 or 21 years old. What happened then?
N - Yes. Well we just had to move out of that house and moved on 28th Street.
I -OK. What was your address there?
N -714.
I -714 North 28th Street, and you were out of high school. Were you working? OK. Where were you working?
N - Model Laundry.
I - Where was that located?
N - 25th between Marshall and Broad.
I - Was that a black owned laundry? And what were you doing there in the laundry?
N - No. White owned. Working on the mangles, that's a big machine that irons sheets and clothes. I worked on that and then I got to be a stacker. That's after they folded the sheets, I would stack them up and tie them with the ribbons.
I - What did, OK, you called this, Ma, Oh Model Laundry. And they serviced what businesses in the city or what?
N - No. They would pick up laundry from the households.
I - Oh, so they did indiviadual homes.
N - Yes. They had a number of trucks Model Laundry, I guess, had about ten or twelve trucks, that went out every day, to pick up laundry.
I - How long did you work there?
N - I'm sure I worked at Model Laundry, I don't remember, I suppose about 20 years.
I - About 20 years.
N - It was a long, long, long time. It might not have been quite that long, but it sure seemed like ilt.
I - So during this time did you get married? What year did you get married?
N - Isn't that awful. I don't remember.
I - How old were you?
N -
I -So you were married when?
N - November 13, 1937.
I - How many children did you have?
N - One.
I - His or her name is?
N - Her name is Mary MagdeleneTucker.
I - Tucker is her married name?
N - Right.
I - And do you have any grandchildren?
N - Two.
I - Two grandchildren and their names?
N - Kenneth Tucker and Calvin.
I - How old are they?
N - Eighteen and twenty-one.
I - Eighteen and twenty-one, very good. What has your daughter been doing since she, she's...
N - Nursing.
I - Nursing. She's a nurse, and did she grow up in Church Hill?
N - Yes.
I - Where did you all live after you got married? Who did you marry? I'm sorry. Let me start there.
N - Junius Robinson.
I - Junius Robinson and you lived right in Church Hill?
N - Yes.
I - What was your first residence?
N - 32nd Street, 803 North 32nd Street.
I - 803 North 32nd Street, and how long were you all there?
N - Oh about three years, I guess.
I - About three years, and when did you have your daughter? Was it at that address?
N - Yes.
I - What year was that?
N - 1937.
I - 1937 and after you lived at 32nd Street where did you move to?
N - P Street, 2706 P Street.
I - How long were you there?
N - Oh I was there about 19 years.
I - Nineteen years, and what about some of your friends and family over there? Still kind of close to your neighborhood?
N - Well this was an apartment house. Alma Johnson was across the hall neighbor, Mammie Burton she was a Burton. She was there underneath, and Clyde Wayne and his parents, they lived next door and remember Reverend Turner, he and his wife lived, use to pastor to this church they lived the second house from our house, and of course there was another apartment on the field there by us, but I can't remember one person that's living and that's Mrs. Lillian Venable, she lived there.
I - Reverend Turner, was he, he was pastor of Gospel Baptist, was he founder?
N - Not then, yes he was the founder.
I - He was the founder of Gospel Baptist, and him and his wife were living in the same apartment.
N - Same block, not the same apartment.
I - All right, what about businesses in that area?
N - It was the only business on, was a hardware store on the corner, and by this time the Garnett's Printing Shop had moved on the next, right in front of the Wilders.
N - Now the Wilders lived where?
N - 28th and P, right across from Fourth Baptist.
I - 28th and P, right across from the print shop and the printing shop moved
N - across the corner.
I - In front of the Wilder house.
N - Yes. and it was a hardware store on the side of Fourth Baptist where Crump is now.
I - And do you know the name of the hardware store?
N -
I - Barnett's Hardware Store? And it is now Crump's refinishing and upholstery shop.
N - Yes.
I - So did it go from Barnett's Hardware Store to Crump's Upholstery and Refinishing?
N - I can't remember if there were any other businesses there, because it stayed vacant a long time after Barnett died.
I - And Mr. Barnett was black or white?
N - White.
I - He was white.
N - Now Garnett was black.
I - Garnett Printing was black. And you stayed there for how many years in that particular neighborhood?
N - I guess about nineteen years.
I - And then where did you move?
N - Here.
I - And this address is ...
N - 1103 North 20th Street.
I - 1103 North 20th Street, and you've been here for how long?
N - 25.
I - 25 years, in this particular house. Tell us a little about this neighborhood. This is not that close to Fourth Baptist, so this was a big move.
N - Well, this neighborhood was fine, when I first moved here, but by the time I moved in here it was predominantly black, then. Because Mrs. Willis was in the block, a Mr. Fulton was in the block, Althea Tinsley lived next door, and the lady that's over on the corner, a Mrs. Rucker she was there when I came.
I - You say predominantly black, so there were still some whites living ...
N - Yes, there were two houses down the street that whites lived in.
I -J ust one white family in tho block.
N - Two families, when I moved here.
I - Did you feel any kind of social unrest at that particular time? What about in your early childhood, as in George Mason, was the neighborhood basically black then, that you were living in? What was the relationship in high school and elementary school between the blacks and whites?
N - Well, we really didn't...
I - Mrs. Robinson you were talking about when the white families moved out and you wasn't sure of the year, was this neighborhood basically black when you moved in?
N - Yes.
I - Was most of the churches around black churches? I know you have Mount Tabor right down the street.
N - No they weren't black then. They were white churches.
I - They were still white churches. Do you remember their names?
N - Fairmount. Christian. Where Mount Tabor is, I think it was Fairmount Christian, and I can't remember what Bethlehem was, I don't remember.
I - What about Gospel Baptist, right next door? When did they come in7
N - Oh I guess only about a couple of years,
I - About what year? Do you know? Vaguely, or how many years?
N - Gospel Baptist?
I - Yes.
N - I would say 20 years.
I - You had been here about 20 years ...
N - Oh I had been here, no I guess I had been here about, maybe about four or five years.
I - About four or five years before they got established.
N - Yes.
I - And ...
N - But a church was there.
I - Oh a church was here previously?
N- Yes.
I - Was it a white church, or black church?
N - It must have been a, but I don't know because nobody was in it, when I moved here.
I - Oh I see. So Reverend Turner brought, or rented, the building, the church building?
N - I guess.
I - From Gospel Baptist. Let us backtrack a few minutes, and talk about holidays. As a child, what war some of the more important holidays that you enjoyed and some of the unusual days?
N - Memorial Day.
I -A nd what was that?
N- Well it was always a parade, on Memorial Day, and I liked following the band.
I - Oh you liked following the band?
N - And they would always go to the cemetery.
I - Which one?
N - Oakwood. Or they went to Evergreen too.
I - Was this a white sponsored parade, or was..?
N - Yes. White sponsored.
I - But you don't know by who?
N - No, seems like the whites would have theirs on Saturdays and the black, the blacks would have them but they would have the Elks band and different other the Rose of Sharon Band or whatever. And they would go on down to the burying ground, which was Evergreen and Greenwood then.
I - That was the black cemetery?
N - Yes.
I - But what time of the year, do you remember what month, this would happen?
N - May the 31st, 30th of May.
I - The 30th of May, you would have Memorial Day, and the whites on Saturday?
N - Usually the Saturday before the 30th.
I - They would go to Oakwood, which was the white cemetery and when would the blacks go to Evergreen?
N - Well the blacks usually go on the 30th of May, or whatever day it fell on, rchool children had a holiday on that day.
I - Oh you got out of school?
N - Yes.
I - Did you participate in both parades, I mean were the blacks, children..?
N - Oh yeah, you could go watch the whitefolks parade, and you would march with the blacks.
I - Oh you marched with the blacks. What other unusual holidays were there?
N - And now this really wasn't a holiday, but what's that thing in October?
I - Halloween.
N - Halloween was one of the highlights of Church Hill. P Street would be lit up.
I - P Street would be lit up with lights?
N - People. Masked, dressed up or just all kinds of people, you could always go to P Street for Halloween.
I - And what would you do after you got to P Street, in your mask?
N - Just watch the people go by and they try to figure who this is, or they might try to figure who you was, and most times all we could figure up in being masked, the girls would put on boys' clothes, you see, they but this is what we would do. But that was one big time for us, Church Hill and blacks. You would have fun from up and down P Street. You would walk say from 34th Street all the way down to 28th or 27th but between 29th and 31st, this is where you saw everybody and everything, and people would be masked. I mean really masked up, and mobs would come out.
I - How long does that last? You not definitely, not doing it now.
N - No they haven't done it in a many many days. Oh I was, I was a teenager then.
I - You were a teenager then, and you were probably going to high school then.
N - Yes. You would be getting ready for Halloween almost a month ahead of time.
I - What you said it was the social event of the year.
N - Yes indeed.
I - Any other holidays?
N - Well of course Christmas, Thanksgiving was always a big holiday, but Christmas was it, the only thing. The kids, whatever you got, usually you would come out in the street and show it, you know and everybody got skates one year. And you would skate on dirt, whatever you could you skated on. And then when people got bicycles, it was the same thing but kids would come out and show their things, like they really appreciated, well I guess they did. You know, you would always get new clothes for Christmas and Easter was another time, Easter paraded up and down P Street, P Street was the street.
I - P Street was the street. OK. What about influential people, even your high school years, your younger years, and even as an adult. What about some of the influential community people that sort-of stood out and got things going?
N - Well as far as I know, really influential people were people from the Church.
I - Could you name a few? Most of your influential people sort-of, your source was the Church?
N - Yes. And of course, well school, got me into sewing. A Mrs. Whiting got me into sewing. And oh with the Church, it's where you went to Sunday School, and they would tell you about God and how you should live, then you tried to live like that, or you trying to help somebody else, or you saw somebody else out there who didn't believe in Sunday School and you would talk to them, and Sunday School would be packed.
I - Sunday School would be packed?
N - You wouldn't have to go out and tell a kid "Why don't you come to Sunday School?" That kid was gone be in Sunday School. I, I, don't whether...
I - What would you feel why is there a difference now? Is it because of the parents, or community or society pressure, or what? What made people anxious, you know?
N - Well really, I guess, people really believed, what you were taught by your ministers and then on top of that you didn't have as many places to go as you have now. And like we went to Buckroe, we went there once a year, with the Church, as a picnic, but now you can go to Buckroe, any ol time, I mean, any of these beaches, any ol time, but
I - But you didn't have the social holiday, the Church was the social holiday and that encouraged people to come?
N - Yes.
I - Do you remember any people who were like political leaders or lawyers?
N - No, I can't remember what like back in my childhood.
I - Well, adulthood also. Young adult.
N - No I don't think I remember too many lawyers.
I - Some of the people who sort-of stood out in the community and got things going?
N - I can see some of these people in my mind, but the names won't come to me.
I - What about unusual events? Were there anything that happened in the community that sort, people that sort-of buzzed about or talked about? I don't know if there was a tremendous fire or if somebody special came from out of town and came from this part of town. Was there anything like that?
N - Well, I, the only thing I can really remember was the Elks parade when they had their convention here. Now that was one big day, they had a parade and well blacks and whites turned out for that, not that the blacks and whites were in the society as such.
I - But you had blacks Elks, and whites Elks. Were there any ? Did you have Elk lodges in Church Hill?
N - Not in Church Hill.
I - OK.
N - The closest one I can recall was the Capitol City Lodge. Ah it was one at Fourth and Clay and one on Second Street between Leigh and Clay.
I - Right. What about the Mooses, the Reindeer and the Masons? Did you have any blacks?
N - Yes. We had black Masons.
I - But were they located in Church Hill?
N - No most of them was up in, that I can remember, was in Newtown.
I - Jackson Ward.
N - Yes.
I - OK N- What about the Depression? Did that have any effect on the way you lived your life? Did you feel any different, economic..?
N - I didn't feel any different.
I - Hard times was hard times.
N - The only way to me the kids knew, it was Depression. They would hear their parents talk about it cause you would feel it one way or the other as a child.
I - Right, right. What about World War II?
N - Well, I can't say that I felt that much because well we never had but so much.
I - Right, right.
N - If you didn't get that well it didn't bother you that much to me, and you know we always said that if you had food you knew you were halfway home.
I - Well thank you Mrs. Robinson for your time. I'd like to conclude this interview with Mrs. Florene Robinson at 1103 North 20th Street.
Questions
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