Church Hill - Willis

Virginia Black History Archives

Church Hill Oral History Project

Transcript of interview with Mrs. Lillian Burke Willis, conducted March 27, 1982 by Akida T. Mensah.

Living and Teaching in Church Hill (Shedtown). This is a tape interview with Mrs. Lillian Burke Willis of 1111 North 20th Street. Mrs. Willis, Mrs. Willis is a retired teacher from Richmond Public Schools, who taught for a number of years at George Mason Elementary School. Mrs. Willis has also worked for many years with the Girl Scouts, Fourth Baptist Church, and she comes from a family that is well thought of in the Church Hill and Richmond communities. The Burkes, who originally came from Jackson Ward, settled in Church Hill and made many significant contributions to their new found community. This interview was conducted March 27, 1982 at the home of Mrs. Lillian Burke Willis.

Mensah: Mrs. Willis, where were you born?

Willis: I was born 306 West Duvall Street in Richmond, Virginia.

Mensah: And you lived there with your parents, uh, for about how long?

Willis: I guess about 5 years.

Mensah: For about 5 years?

Willis: Uh, huh.

Mensah: And then where did you live?

Willis: Well, we moved from there to 609 North 5th Street, which was at that time a white neighborhood. And duh, when we moved in, in he night, the police arrested my father because they had moved into neighborhood that was all white.

Mensah: That's interesting, and whatever happened? What, and how, was it ever resolved?

Willis: Well, at the same time uh, there was um, a family on Church Hill who was having this same problem. And that was the, the uh, oh I can't think of the name.

Mensah: But they were having a similar problem.

Willis: The similar problem and they were in court at the same time. And of course, we won the case. So my grandmother stayed there. We lived there until I was about seven years old. Then my father brought on Church Hill because his business was over on Church Hill.

Mensah: You said he brought on Church Hill? Where did you live on Church Hill? Where did he move to on Church Hill?

Willis: To 714 North 30th Street.

Mensah: 714 North 30th Street? And he had a business you say?

Willis: Yes, on "P" Street, in the rear on 2700 block on "P" Street. Between 28th and 27th. Blacksmith.

Mensah: And he was a Blacksmith?

Willis: Yeah. Charles E. Burke.

Mensah: Uh huh. And, and your mother's name?

Willis: My mother's name was Mariah Edwards.

Mensah: Mariah Edwards.

Willis: And then she married, they were married in 1909, and I was born 1911.

Mensah: 1911. And your birthdate?

Willis: September 1st.

Mensah: September the 1st?

Willis: Uh huh.

Mensah: So now you're living in Church Hill and going to school. What school did you go to?

Willis: When we moved over in the Church Hill I went into George Mason School. I had gone to Navy Hill. So, I finished uh, George Mason and from there I went to Armstrong High School on West Leigh Street.

Mensah: You, you were at George Mason so I would imagine you were in Mr. Bowler.. uh, Rev. Bowler's class.

Willis: Oh yes!

Mensah: Who were some of your classmates?

Willis: Oh, there were so many of them. There were so many of them and I remember them well because we always had a class picture made, when..when graduation time came. And duh, at the time there was uh, Mariam Robinson, and Emma Booke Mattie Sully, and duh, Dorothy.. Dorothy uh, I can't remember Dorothy's last name. Rebecca Taylor, Dorothy Christian. I knew more of the girls than I did the boys. Fleming Davis, Doris uh, Jones, Annie Glasco, Willnette Mingleton, um, Lynwood dum, Robinson.

Mensah: Lynwood Robinson?

Willis: Lynwood Robinson, Kermit Barnum, George Parker, and those were some of the ...

Mensah: Uh huh. And was this the same Lynwood Robinson after whom the Senior Center is named?

Willis: Yes, um hum.

Mensah: So uh, after George Mason you went on to Armstrong and had you made up in your mind then that you, what career you would take for yourself?

Willis: Oh Yes, that came when I was a little girl. I had in... great inspiration for that because my mother had been a teacher, and duh, I had three aunts who were teachers, an uncle who was a teacher. So uh, I iked eaching. I cut pictures out of Sears Roebuck Catalog and sat them on the stairs and I taught school. So those were my first children.

Mensah: Urn hum. So you..you..you at a very early age, uh, had been influenced by your aunts and your mother ah, to be a teacher. Uh, when did you start your teaching career?

Willis: In 1930. In Goochland County, Maidens Virginia.

Mensah: Urn hum. This was uh, during the depression?

Willis: I guess it was.

Mensah: Good. And duh, when did you come to Richmond to teach?

Willis: I taught in Goochland County, I guess it was about a year and a half, and then I came up to Richmond.

Mensah: Urn hum. And was George Mason your first school?

Willis: No. I uh, Dunbar.

Mensah: Dunbar?

Willis: In Southside.

Mensah: In Southside?

Willis: And from there, I came over to George Mason.

Mensah: And when you came to George Mason, who was the principal at..

Willis: Mr. Morris, Mr. George W. Morris. He was the princip6l.

Mensah: What kind of person was he?

Willis: He was a very kind person, and he cared about the pupils and he cared about the teachers. He was very considerate yet he saw that things were done as they should be done. He did not want to punish children, but at the time he would get the smallest switch he could find to punish them. So uh, I think he really cared about the children in the neighbor ... in the community, because he had..he was there when I was a student. At ... George Mason.

Mensah: Would you consider this unusual being that Mr. Morris was uh, White and this was a predominantly Black school? Was this unusual or were there other uh, people of his race uh, who you may consider equally kind or humanitarian?

Willis: Well , I don't know, but at the time there were White principals and duh, later, they took in..they had colored principals.

Mensah: I was wondering, you know, were they ... there's so much talk about segretation and how bad it was. But you mentioned uh, you know, here was a man who was principal of the school who one may expect to be kind, but he didn't necessarily have to be, and I was just wondering is this something unique about this particular person or whether maybe there were others who were not as bad as maybe history sometimes record people as being.

Willis: I think he was just a kind person. It was his makeup and duh, I think that was it.

Mensah: Well, ah, in looking back uh, over your career and, I'm sure you've met many children and many parents. What things characterize in your mind uh, the school and the neighborhood. What, how would you describe the setting, the uh, people, etc.?

Willis: Well, when I was given notice that I would come over to Geroge Mason, I was a little hesitant about it because I didn't know how the people were.. would accept me in the neighborhood, because I had been a child around there and they all knew me. Since looking back over that, I think that was the best thing that could ever happen to me. I never met such wonderful people. I had a chance to learn the families, the children. The parents made me feel welcome into their homes. And it was one of the best things that you could do..a teacher could do; to visit the homes of the children, to make friends with the families, and even the little ones who were not ready for school would come to get a peek at the teacher when she came to visit the family. So I really spent some wonderful days at George Mason.

Mensah: You mentioned getting to know the families and going into the homes and so on. Was this ah, something that you did on your on, or was this part of the schedul program of George Mason to go into homes and get to meet the families and so on, or just how did that work?

Willis: Well, that was a little of both, because uh, living on the Hill is right around the families, I had a chance to pass by the homes and I would have to stop. I would stop and talk to the families as I would pass. And of course, they..one of the requirements at school was that the teacher visit each home. And report on the findings and I feel hat as one of the best things that could be done because if you can get the teacher-parent to work together, you won't have the trouble with the children. If the parent has confidence in you, you won't have any trouble with the children.

Mensah: It would seem maybe that some of the confidence that you enjoyed resulted from the fact that you lived in the neighborhood and people got to know you. Were there other teachers who lived in the neighborhood at the time you were teaching, who lived in Church Hill?

Willis: Yes. There was ah, Mrs. Mariam Robinson White, Mrs. Verna Stevens, Mrs. Norma Wynn, Mrs. Rosa Robinson Wilkerson who were all very active in the community.

Mensah: So in addition to teaching ah, it sounds to me that you're saying that the teachers were also active in the community, they got to be known in other aspects of the community.

Willis: That's true.

Mensah: It's that you were probably one of the favorite teachers during the period that you were at George Mason. What do you attribute hat to?

Willis: I can't say that. The..the children loved most of their teachers, and to a child his teacher is the best teacher in the world. So I can't say that I was a favorite but I think the children who went to me, loved me. And I loved them. They would meet me some mornings on my front porch before I could get out to get to school. They were on the porch waiting for me. And in the evening they came around to go for a walk. So how could I get rid of them? (Mensah laughs)

Mensah: I understand you also worked uh, with the Girl Scouts in the churches.. uh, was it the Fourth Baptist Church?

Willis: Yes.

Mensah: Did this enhance your ability to teach or to have influence, or maybe I should say, on your student that ... that knowing you from Girl Scouting and so on, did this enhance your uh, job in trying to teach and get to know your students?

Willis: I think so, because ah, the more active you are i a community, the more influence you have on the people there. And I feel that.. that is very important.

Mensah: Could you describe, generally, the community uh, and the point that I am getting at is today Church Hill is uh, described by many as an area in transition, and area that's deteriorating, etc. What you're saying to me seemingly suggest a pretty closely knitted community. Were there businesses and other professionals in the neighborhood that would characterize the sort of close knitted community.

Willis: Yes. It was quite an active community. There were along "P" Street from 29th to 27th, I'd say, there were a number of business owned by uh, the Black people in the community. Uh, there was my father, for one, who was the blacksmith, and he was there for a long number of years. He died ... (interuption by Mensah)

Mensah: Would this be beginning around the 30's and going forward?

Willis: He was a blacksmith before we moved on to the ... on the Hill, and his shop was there. So since I was a little girl and he died in 1940, so his business was there until the, until blacksmithing went away.

Mensah: Right. And you're saying then, that these other businesses were probably there also.

Willis: Yeah. Some of them were still there. There was Mr. Garnett who had the printing, uh, establishment. There was uh, uh, cleaning and pressing, uh, shop there during the time a Mr. Wise and in the block across from the church there was a colored drugstore by Mr..run by Mr. Richards.

Mensah: And it use to ... across from the church you mean Fourth Baptist?

Willis: Fourth Baptist Church, yes. So there were a number of businesses along there, and on the side, with ... on the side with the church there was a little shoe shine parlor there, and I can't remember the others, but some..some else might ...

Mensah: Uh huh. Where there doctors, lawyers, uh, in the community as well?

Willis: Yes. Dr. Griffin, and Dr. Tancil.

Mensah: Dr. Tancil?

Willis: Yes.

Mensah: I've heard that name and associated with the banks...

Willis: (at the same time as Mensah) ..yes very o-o-ld doctors.

Mensah: Uh, I think the Nickle Savings Bank?

Willis: I don't know. Someone else could tell you more about that.

Mensah: Okay. Willis And duh, Dr. Harris, Vernon J. Harris. He was a beloved doctor on the Hill. He would come to people's homes anytime of the night that they would ask. He really was a dedicated person. And duh, there were funneral homes. Uh, Scott, uh, Mr. Scott's father had this funneral home at the corner of "N" S...what's the name of that street? "O" Street! At one time.

Mensah: And this was Mr. Alpheus Scott?

Willis: Yes, uh hum.

Mensah: And he was the father of Robert C. Scott?

Willis: That's right. Yes. Barbershops.

Mensah: There were barbershops?

Willis: Yes. Mr. Hunter Himbrick had a barbershop on "P" Street, and Mr. Dick Reid. So there were a number of businesses on the Hill.

Mensah: Uh huh. Over the period of time that you taught at Geroge Mason, you must have come in contact with quite a few children. Many of whom I am sure today are what we would consider successful. Can you remember any of them in school and how would you describe them as students?

Willis: Wel l , they were very little children when they came to me. And if you know little children if they trust you they would do anything you ask. And that was just about what they did. We did have a few problems, but they were ironed out. But duh, uh, James Booker, the son of Mrs. Thelma Morton Booker and Janies A. Booker who was in the insurance at that time, uh, I don't know what he is doing now, but he is very success- ful. There's Ms ... Mrs. Shirley Scales Craig who is doing very well. Uh, I can't think to much. I'm proud of the number of young men I have found in church who are deacons, and ushers. When I see them I just. It just makes my heart feel good. And ...

Mensah: In leafing through your..uh, magazine, school magazine I..I noticed a few poems by Henry Marsh and his wife, Diane Harris, and several other persons who had gone to school or was in school in 1945. Was Delegate Christian one of those persons at Geroge Mason during your time?

Willis: No. No he was..he was ahead of my time.

Mensah: One of the things that I noticed in this booklet, and the reason I asked the question about Delegate Christan, it seems at least 3 of our elected officials uh, attended George Mason. Senator Wilder, Mayor Marsh, and Delegate James Christain. Ah, and I noticed in looking in the 1945 magazine, school magazine, a series of articles on President uh, Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt and I was just wondering whether there were specific kinds of things in heir background or schooling that would have lended itself to their pursuing careers in politics.

Willis: It seems so, from the little poem written by Mayor Marsh on President Roosevelt. But duh, at the time Roosevelt was a.. was the President and he was a very popular one as you may recall.

Mensah: Yeah.

Willis: And duh, at..at the..I guess maybe that's why the children wrote bout him.

Mensah: I can recall uh, a lot of sadness a the death of President Roosevelt, uh, in the Black community. Uh, which I gues speaks of the fact that he was quite esteemed by ll, having come in at th depression or during the depression with his programs and being seen as a person who did a great deal for the poor.

Willis: Yes it seem that way, as the people were given jobs. And duh, he seemed to have helped us at that time.

Mensah: The second World War uh, was probably coming to an end around 1945 but is there anything particular that you remember about that war as far as its affect on school or the kind of work that you were trying to do in the community? Uh, a lot of men were leaving and going off and many of them didn't come back. A lot of women were going out to work. Did, is there anything particular about that era that made it difficult or interesting for a teacher?

Willis: Well, the only thing about it was that the teachers were required to register the men who were to go off to war at that time. So I was among those who had to register the young men all around.

Mensah: Were these ...

Willis: But ...

Mensah: Registrations, did they take place in the school?

Willis: In the school, in the school. But I don't remember too much about what happened at that time.

Mensah: Were..did you find yourself registering persons whom you had taught at one time?

Willis: No. No. They hadn't gotten to the age to go. Drafted.

Mensah: Your work as a scout leader, would you like to share some of those experiences?

Willis: Well, we uh, had scouting at our church at Fourth Baptist Church. And duh, I worked with the brownies because I was particular with the group, that I was particularly interested in. I found that I could work better there. And I feel that if you are going to do a job, try to get the place where you're gonna feel satisfied and you can do a better job. So I worked with them. Oh, I guess around about 25 or 30 years. And duh, quite a number of girls had gone to..some of them are even leaders now and I'm very proud of them. So uh, at our church we had the largest girl scout troop in the city at Fourth Baptist. The leaders are still working very hard. I'm connected still with them but not as a worker with the girls.

Mensah: After having taught at George Mason for a number of years, I understand you went to several other schools in the Church Hill area. Was there a great deal of difference in your opinion, this changing and of course, I would think you were approaching the time that integration was being talked about if not being implemented. What was that like and what kind of adjustments did this require of you?

Willis: Well, there wasn't much of an adjustment to be made because there were still the same children. The school was overcrowded and they sent some of the children to J. Andrew Bowler School which was ...

Mensah: The old Springfield ...

Willis: The old Springfield School. And duh, there wasn't that much to adjust to there. It just went on just as if I were at George Mason. But there was no..no um, thought of integration at that time. And of course, I stayed there until I went to the Chimborazo School because we outgrew Bowler School. And they like to have sormone who has been in teaching a long time to go into a new situation. And duh, so I went over to Chimborazo School in the old building there at 30 ... 33rd and Marshall.

Mensah: Urn hum. That at the present is ARCAP Center I think.

Willis: It is, yes. Then from there they went to build the new building. We have a chance to go over there. Very, very wonderful. It was a wonderful building. Clean, and had all the equipment that was needed. No make shift cafeteria, because at the..at George Mason there was no cafeteria. There was a cafeteria at Bowler. There was none at duh, Chimborazo. But the new Chimborazo where it was the cafeteria for the children, and the gym. A lot of space where you could work comfortably. But they were all in the same community which seemed to been a..a closeness among the people. Later came integration.

Mensah: Were you involved in any significant way in the integration process uh, to the extent that you could sort of contrast the two eras?

Willis: Well, the schools were paired and our school was paired with this school over in south Richmond. And the children from the lower grades came over to Chimborazo, and duh, I found them easy to work with. I found the parents easy to work with. Of course, they were shy just as if we would have been. We would have been the same way had we gone into a situation. So uh, the parent I found were very, very nice. And I didn't have any trouble at all with them. And it was almost time for me to retire. And duh, I learned to love those little children. I have pictures of them. I have tapes made of their little songs, and I can still play them and think about them. And I hope where ever they are they are doing well. I retired in June 1972 from Chimborazo School. I loved teaching in Richmond, Virginia. The city helped me by giving me an education from Richmond Armstrong Normal School. The training there was superb and it helped me to meet any obsticles that I had to face. [Side 2] I am hoping to stay here on Church Hill because it is a nice section in which to live. I'm living now on 20th Street in what was considered as Fairmount, the outskirts of Fairmount. Now, I'm hoping for the future that we will have more plans, more planned housing for Church Hill, to make it beautiful. People need to see more beauty. They don't need to see jungle. They need to see beauty. And we do know some poeple are restoring the old homds. Thats very good, but there are many homes that need to be restored from the ground up. And I do (interuption from Mensah)

Mensah: In other words, you mean torn down and rebuilt, uh?

Willis: Yes, yes. Some of them. But I do feel that the people should have their place where they have lived, they love it, that's why they're there. Their homes should be built and they should be allowed to come right back and stay in that same place if they wish.

Mensah: In other words, you feel that there is enough sentiment, uh, positive sentiment related to Church Hill to sort of revive that community spirit? Uh, well not revive it, strengthen it. Strengthen the community spirit to the extend that Church Hill could continue to be a pleasant place to live?

Willis: Yes, I feel that way.

Mensah: Ms. Willis, I really would like to thank you for this interview and we hope that your retirement last as long as you wish and it be as enjoyable as apparently, your teaching years were.

Willis: Will, I have to live to be 99 years old as my mother did.

Mensah: Good enough. And we certainly hope that for you.

Willis: Thank you. I hope so.

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