[The tape begins with a reading of the "Statement of Purpose." The transcript takes up immediately after the reading, or about 1 minute and 24 seconds into the tape. Ed.]
Interviewer: If you could please state your name?
Mr. Quarles: William D. Quarles.
Interviewer: [To Mrs. Quarles]: Your name?
Mrs. Quarles: Jean C. Quarles.
Interviewer: Your date of birth.
Mr. Quarles: [1947]
Mrs. Quarles: [1947]
Interviewer: Mr. Quarles, if I can get your place of birth, your street, city and state?
Mr. Quarles: Richmond.
Interviewer: You don't remember the street?
Mr. Quarles: 714 Lincoln Avenue.
Mrs. Quarles: Richmond, 1206 North 32nd Street.
Interviewer: If you can tell me, Mr. Quarles, your father's occupation?
Mr. Quarles: Laborer.
Interviewer: And your mother's occupation?
Mr. Quarles: Well, she was a housewife.
Mrs. Quarles: My father was a laborer and my mother did what they would call "days work."
Interviewer: How many brothers did you have, Mr. Quarles?
Mr. Quarles: None.
Interviewer: Sisters?
Mr. Quarles: One.
Mrs. Quarles: I have three brothers and one sister.
Interviewer: I'm just going to ask you a few questions about your education. Did you attend kindergarten?
Mr. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: What was the name of your school?
Mr. Quarles: Mary Scott.
Interviewer: Is that M-u-r... ?
Mr. Quarles: "Mary" and then "Scott."
Interviewer: [Your] junior high or middle school?
Mr. Quarles: Benjamin Graves and Chandler.
Interviewer: And your high school?
Mr. Quarles: Armstrong and Maggie Walker.
Interviewer: Did you attend College or University?
Mr. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: [To Mrs. Quarles]: Did you attend Kindergarten?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes. I started at George Mason. Do you need to know all the elementary schools I attended?
Interviewer: Yes, please.
Mrs. Quarles: After George Mason, I went to Woodville, then to Fairmount, then I attended East End Middle School, and then Armstrong High School. That's it.
Interviewer: [To Mr. Quarles]: If you could, please state your occupation, or if you've had several occupations, you can tell me.
Mr. Quarles: Right now I'm a delivery man but was a machine operator for International Paper for the past 16 years.
Interviewer: [To Mrs. Quarles]: And there's you, too?
Mrs. Quarles: At present, I guess you could call me a clerk. I work at Virginia Employment Commission.
Interviewer: If you could, please tell us your religious affiliation.
Mr. Quarles: Baptist.
Interviewer: And your children, how many boys, how many girls?
Mr. Quarles: Three boys.
Interviewer: Do you have any grand-children?
Mr. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: When you were a small child before you went to school, did you live in Richmond?
Mr. Quarles: Yes.
Mrs. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: You both did. What were some of your earliest memories about childhood that you would like to tell us about?
Mrs. Quarles: Well [laughs], an aunt raised me and my youngest brother. We lived on the same street where my parents lived, and I remember they used to take us fishing. They liked to travel, and I remember once going fishing, and they took us once to Atlantic City. I remember the Board Walk up there and the sand which was very, very hot [laughs].
Interviewer: I bet it was [laughs].
Mrs. Quarles: Some things I can remember and some things I can't. I think I had a pretty normal childhood.
Interviewer: How were the neighboring institutions such as church? How were they important to you, or were they important to you?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes, we attended Sunday school and church every Sunday.
Interviewer: Thinking back on some of your childhood playmates, did you ever have any playmates of another race or ethnic minority?
Mrs. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: Go back to your memory of the first day of school. Do you remember what the year was?
Mrs. Quarles: [Laughs]. No.
Interviewer: But you remember what the school was?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes [laughs].
Interviewer: Describe how you felt and some of the images that you remember most clearly when you first started school.
Mrs. Quarles: I remember I didn't want to stay, for one thing. This was the first time to be away from family, and I think I cried because I didn't want to be there.
Interviewer: This is when you were attending elementary school?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: I can understand that [laughs]. What influence did your family, your parents, your brothers and sisters, or other kinfolk have on your outlook about school at this time?
Mrs. Quarles: In elementary?
Interviewer: Yes. How did they feel about it?
Mrs. Quarles: Well, I guess they wanted us all to get an education. All my brothers and sisters attended the same school, and--like I said--they felt that education was very important.
Interviewer: How were your classmates like you or not like you?
Mrs. Quarles: I really couldn't tell at that age. I really didn't see the difference.
Interviewer: Right. It was a long time ago. Regarding your teachers, how did you feel about your teachers in elementary school and about the type of education your received from them?
Mrs. Quarles: Now, you're asking me stuff that happened years ago [laughs].
Interviewer: We'll get to stuff a little more recent, but... ?
Mrs. Quarles: I guess at that time the classrooms were large, I mean the classes were large. And....
Interviewer: How large would you say about?
Mrs. Quarles: I would say at least 30 or more kids were in the classrooms. I guess the teachers felt that if you were there really to learn, they took the time with you, but if not, they didn't take much time with you.
Interviewer: What junior high or middle school did you attend? I know you already stated this, but... ?
Mrs. Quarles: I attended East End Middle School.
Interviewer: Do you remember how this level of schooling was different from your elementary school?
Mrs. Quarles: The subjects were a little harder and you really had to study to make the grades and in order to pass.
Interviewer: Could you please tell me again what year you went to elementary school?
Mrs. Quarles: It was 1952.
Interviewer: What year did you attend middle school?
Mrs. Quarles: I think from 1952 to 1959, then I entered East End Middle School.
Interviewer: And where did you attend high school?
Mrs. Quarles: I attended Armstrong High School and started in 1961.
Interviewer: What was the most important memory you have about high school?
Mrs. Quarles: It was hard [laughs]. I remember, at that time, the classes were large. Like in my graduation class when we started at East End, there were 700 kids in that one class. When we finally graduated, it was almost 400, not quite 400.
Interviewer: Wow! Now did you attend Armstrong the same year?
Mr. Quarles: No. Different years.
Interviewer: Do you remember what years?
Mr. Quarles: I went to Armstrong 1961 think. I went there two years, then for the last year I went to Walker.
Interviewer: What were some of your earliest memories of childhood?
Mr. Quarles: Really, I can't remember, it's been so long (laughs).
Interviewer: I know it's hard. How were neighboring institutions, such as the church, important to you?
Mr. Quarles: Well, we went often and participated in church events and stuff.
Interviewer: So it was a pretty regular thing?
Mr. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: Did you have any playmates of another race or ethnic identity at that time? Can you remember?
Mr. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: Go back in your memory to the first day of school, elementary school. Do you remember the year?
Mr. Quarles: Should have been 1952.
Interviewer: And what was the name of the school?
Mr. Quarles: Mary Scott.
Interviewer: Describe how you felt and the images that you remember most clearly when you first started elementary school.
Mr. Quarles: Seeing people I hadn't seen before.
Interviewer: What influence did your family and/or other kinfolk have on you attending school?
Mr. Quarles: I guess they wanted the best for me as far as getting something out of school.
Interviewer: Did your sister also attend the same school?
Mr. Quarles: Yes, the only thing was that she went to another high school.
Interviewer: How were your classmates different or like you, if you can remember?
Mr. Quarles: Most of us were friends. You see, we went to a neighborhood school as opposed to most of the people who were either from Providence Park and Washington Park. You just about knew everybody.
Interviewer: So, pretty much everyone in the neighborhood went to that same school, and they all went to Mary Scott. Regarding your teachers, how did you feel about them and the education you received from them?
Mr. Quarles: Well, classes weren't as large, but teachers were a lot older, then they took more time with you if you needed it.
Interviewer: Your classroom size was about how many students?
Mr. Quarles: Maybe 20-25.
Interviewer: Were your teachers mostly black teachers, or all of them?
Mr. Quarles: Yes, all of them.
Interviewer: How did you feel about your education in comparison to other youngsters in Richmond, or did you even have any concept of it at the time?
Mr. Quarles: No, I didn't.
Interviewer: How did you get to elementary school?
Mr. Quarles: Walked.
Interviewer: You walked. How close was your school?
Mr. Quarles: In a 4 or 5 block radius. Washington Park was small.
Interviewer: Were there other schools in that area that were close?
Mr. Quarles: Ginter Park was close, but Mary Scott was closer. They're almost compatible. According to where you lived in the Washington Park, it was just as easy to walk to Ginter Park as it was to Mary Scott.
Interviewer: Were the surrounding schools all black, too?
Mr. Quarles: No, that's a white school [Ginter Park].
Interviewer: Were those children bused to that school?
Mr. Quarles: They probably did, but I wasn't aware of it. We did have the children from Providence. They had to be bused to Mary Scott, because they [the authorities] divided it with another neighborhood between the two parks.
Interviewer: Was there a school closer to them on that side of town?
Mr. Quarles: Not that I knew of at that time.
Interviewer: So, that was pretty much the closest school. [To Mrs. Quarles]: How did you get to school?
Mrs. Quarles: I walked.
Interviewer: What type of neighborhood did you live in? Was it an all-black community?
Mrs. Quarles: No, when I was, say, about 7 or 8, we moved into an integrated neighborhood. Integrated, at that time was more like, I would say, 70% white and 30% black. When I attended Woodville Elementary, it was an all-black school, and it was the closest all-black school to us at that time, but there was another school that was closer which was Fairmount, and at the time it was all-white. But as the neighborhood changed, Fairmount eventually became an all-black school also.
Interviewer: When you first moved into this integrated neighborhood, do you remember the year?
Mrs. Quarles: It would have to be, I would say, 1955.
Interviewer: How was your family accepted into this neighborhood?
Mrs. Quarles: When we moved, we were the only black family within 2 or 3 blocks, I think. I can recall, we were harassed. I remember we had two big stone flower pots on the front porch. One night somebody came along and just took them up and broke them. I remember another time a dead snake was thrown in the yard. We lived on the corner and they used to come by and curse.
Interviewer: What decision allowed you to move into this neighborhood?
Mrs. Quarles: My aunt and uncle bought a house in the neighborhood at that time.
Interviewer: And there was a law before the families moved into this neighborhood?
Mrs. Quarles: I think after we moved in, I'd say, at least 4 years, it was all-black, just about all-black.
Interviewer: When you were walking to school and you passed a white school, how were your feelings about the white school?
Mrs. Quarles: We didn't pass the white [school], Fairmount. Woodville was in the projects, which is in another direction. When we walked to Woodville, that was about 8 or 9 blocks. ... 4 ... within a 5 block distance of our house.
Interviewer: How did you feel about the white school facilities as compared to your school facilities?
Mrs. Quarles: I knew Fairmount was a bigger school and, to me, the grounds and everything were better kept than Woodville.
Interviewer: How did you feel about your facilities at your school? Did you feel they were adequate?
Mrs. Quarles: At that time I thought they were adequate, until later [when] we found out about the different things other schools had.
Interviewer: Such as?
Mrs. Quarles: Well, better playground equipment, for one thing, because I knew at Fairmount they had swings, but at Woodville, they didn't have any.
Interviewer: Mr. Quarles, can you tell me what year you attended junior high school?
Mr. Quarles: 1960.
Interviewer: What was the name of that school?
Mr. Quarles: It was Benjamin Graves [Junior High School] .... Yes, I went there one year and then I went to Chandler after we had gone to Court and everything. I went to Chandler one year, then I went back to Graves to finish up the 9th Grade.
Interviewer: So you attended one year at Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: Right.
Interviewer: And Chandler at the time was an all-white middle [junior high] school?
Mr. Quarles: Very.
Interviewer: Could you please state the year that you went to Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: '61.
Interviewer: How many of the black students were at Chandler the year that you went?
Mr. Quarles: There might have been 40. It wasn't that many.
Interviewer: So there were several there that had gone perhaps the year before?
Mr. Quarles: I think there were 2 that went..., no, I take that back. There were, maybe 15 of us, I think, because we had to go back and forth to Court. Then they decided to let us go and....
Interviewer: Do you remember what year the Court was.... around 1960?
Mr. Quarles: It had to be 1960 and 1961, because I was still going to Graves when we would get off and go down to the School Board. They would ask you these questions about why you wanted to go to Chandler, and stuff like that, although we went all the way past Chandler to go all the way into town to go to Graves.
Interviewer: Why did you want to attend Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: O.K., Chandler, I could have almost rode my bicycle or walked; where at Graves, I couldn't have rode a bicycle because I would have had to go all the way into town.
Interviewer: So, that's the main reason, distance?
Mr. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: What type of encouragement or support did you get from your family to attend Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: Well, my mother felt that I would get a better education.
Interviewer: What about the other children in your neighborhood? Did they also attend Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: A few of them did, but after that first year -- 1961, I think--a lot of them went to John Marshall. [They] finished at the middle school, and then decided to go to John Marshall because they were right within walking distance.
Interviewer: When you attended Chandler, how were you treated by the white students?
Mr. Quarles: Terrible, terrible. Some classes were pretty good. I had one teacher, Ms. Rogers, who was a biology/science [teacher], and she was real nice. Then I had....
Interviewer: Excuse me, were most of these teachers black or white?
Mr. Quarles: All of them were white.
Interviewer: All of them were white, okay.
Mr. Quarles: And you had a few of them of that would "throw off" on you, not in a direct fashion, but in little key words they would say. It was right hard.
Interviewer: Academically, how did you do as far as grades?
Mr. Quarles: Not too good.
Interviewer: Not too good? Do you feel that was true of all black students, or could you pretty much leave [inaudible]?
Mr. Quarles: No. I believe mine was a lack of concentration. You had a whole lot going on, and then I had a couple of squabbles with some kids over there, and I just couldn't deal with it. That's the reason I went back to Graves.
Interviewer: Did you ever have any friends of the white race there?
Mr. Quarles: Not to call friends, because most of them would talk to you in school [but] you get up there by the bus stop or something, and they wouldn't know you. So, no.
Interviewer: So, then in 1962 you switched schools and basically it was because you felt that it was just... the pressure? At the time you were attending Chandler, what did you expect your high school education to do for you?
Mr. Quarles: To continue on [laughs], you know. Okay, some of us had some young teachers over there. They were real nice and understanding, and they would try to help you, pull you over the side. I left before the school year ended. I'll never forget Mr. Montgomery, my history teacher. He told me "good luck," wherever I was going. But, there were a lot of them over there that were not like that, and it was rough. You could be sitting in that class and a spit ball would hit you behind the head, and [they'd] call you all sorts of names.... out of this world. In shop class, if you got a little saw-dust on you, they'd say, "What are you,trying to do, change?" Stuff like that.
Interviewer: This was on a daily basis that this happened?
Mr. Quarles: Daily! Daily!
Interviewer: Any other real vivid experiences that you can... ?
Mr. Quarles: In gym class, "You got to be a little monkey," and some of those other names they'd call you. If you were in a fight, it was your fault. The other guy, he didn't do anything. But, just like I said, I took it as long as I could.
Mrs. Quarles: You could tell them about science, about the teacher with the book.
Mr. Quarles: Oh, yeah. I think her name was Ms. Butts, the math teacher. She said in another one of these little slur ways, "Some of our students don't know how to take care of books," referring to us. I think it was bad because you're a young kid and you don't really need that in a situation where you're in an integrated school.
Interviewer: Did a lot of the other black students end up leaving or do you remember how many of them stayed?
Mr. Quarles: A few left and went to Graves, and then, I guess, the rest of them stuck it out. My sister, she came there after me, and well, after about the end of [that year], everything was running half way smoothly.
Interviewer: Did she ever tell you how she felt or did she have any of the similar experiences you had?
Mr. Quarles: No, not really, because I think after you got over that first year, then there were a greater number of blacks going the next year.
Interviewer: So she attended then in 1962?
Mr. Quarles: Yes. Right.
Interviewer: After you left Chandler and you went back to Graves, after you had seen a white school, how would you compare the facilities at Graves to that of Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: They had differences as far as books. Chandler had newer books, where Graves had books, I think, from the 1950's. You know, they were still using them.
Interviewer: And the insides of the schools and other... ?
Mr. Quarles: Well, the insides of the school were basically almost the same because both of them were old schools.
Interviewer: Academically, how would you compare the two schools? Do you feel that you were getting a better education at Graves, or do you f eel you would have received a better education at Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: It's hard to say, because of the short time that I stayed there, although I had a few good teachers that I felt were pretty good. I would have learned more had I had, you know.
Interviewer: More concentration...
Mr. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: What types of classes did you take at Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: Just general.
Interviewer: What types of classes would they have offered you pretty much? Anything new you would take, or...?
Mr. Quarles: Well, I guess it would have been the same with your business or college preparatory or general; it would have been the same three.
Interviewer: Could you compare the teachers that you had at Graves with those at Chandler?
Mr. Quarles: Well, going back to Graves, I knew the teachers at Graves. It was just like coming back home, in a sense of speaking, where over at Chandler, the people, when you walked in the door, you knew you were different, and that just stayed with you.
Interviewer: Where did you attend high school?
Mr. Quarles: Armstrong.
Interviewer: And what year was that?
Mr. Quarles: 1966.
Interviewer: You also stated that you attended Maggie Walker?
Mr. Quarles: Yes, I stayed at Armstrong for 2 years and went to Walker for one, the last year.
Interviewer: The last year, which was 1968?
Mr. Quarles: 1968.
Interviewer: What was one of the most important memories about Armstrong? [To Mrs. Quarles]: You can jump in, too, because you also attended Armstrong.
Mr. Quarles: I enjoyed going to school every day when I went to Armstrong. It was that atmosphere over at Armstrong. Everyone who went to Graves just about went to Walker. So I said, "I'm going to change, I'm going to Armstrong." Going to Armstrong was totally different, altogether. You enjoyed going to school. You didn't have people standing in the halls, playing and stuff, and not going to class as you did at Walker.
Interviewer: So you had a choice, then, which school to attend?
Mr. Quarles: Yes, you had school choice then.
Interviewer: Was Armstrong closer to you or was... ?
Mr. Quarles: Neither one of them was close.
Interviewer: Neither one of them? Then how did you get... ?
Mr. Quarles: Bus.
Interviewer: You were bused. [To Mrs. Quarles]: And the same with you?
Mrs. Quarles: No, I was within walking distance to Armstrong, so I went to Armstrong.
Interviewer: [To Mr. Quarles]: Tell me again how you were bused.
Mr. Quarles: We had to catch Virginia Transit. We had to buy 24 bus tickets and catch the bus--public transportation--to school.
Interviewer: Everyone had to do this or was this for your district?
Mr. Quarles: Everyone.
Interviewer: The city had no busing?
Mr. Quarles: No busing for us.
Interviewer: Were there any white high schools that were close to you?
Mr. Quarles: Yes, John Marshall.
Interviewer: And how did these students get to school?
Mr. Quarles: Well, in our neighborhood, they walked.
Interviewer: Did they have any type of busing, or did they also have to buy... ?
Mr. Quarles: No. If they walked they didn't have to [buy].
Interviewer: It was really all in the neighborhood?
Mr. Quarles: Everyone in my neighborhood that went to John Marshall, they could walk to the school because it wasn't that far.
Interviewer: What was the ratio of composition at Armstrong, then? It was all...
Mr. Quarles: All black.
Interviewer: And the same with Maggie Walker?
Mr. Quarles: Right.
Interviewer: What were some of the things you said you liked or disliked about Armstrong?
Mr. Quarles: I liked it. Mr. Peterson, he was a no-nonsense principal. If you had a [inaudible] long, he would tell you to cut it. You just enjoyed the atmosphere of the school, the teachers.
Interviewer: And the teachers were mostly black or all black?
Mr. Quarles: No. We had some white teachers over there, but I never had the opportunity to have any of them.
Interviewer: [To Mrs. Quarles]: Did you have any white teachers?
Mrs. Quarles: No. I had all black teachers.
Interviewer: So, you wouldn't be able to compare the teachers, the whites and blacks at the time?
Mrs. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: Is there an experience you'd like to tell me about high school or what things you liked or disliked?
Mrs. Quarles: I liked going to Armstrong. I was a pretty good student up until the senior year [laughs]. At that time it just seemed that things got harder that senior year for me. The teachers, they were very good, but you had some bad ones, too [laughs]. My older brothers and sisters, all went to Armstrong. Well, my brother, he was sort of like a star athlete. So, anybody who knew my brother, and I told them what my name was, everybody knew my older brother. That's about it, I think.
Interviewer: You went to Armstrong all the way through? You were there the whole time?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: Either one of you or both of you can answer this. When you were in high school, were you aware of any type of ability grouping?
Mr. and Mrs. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: When either of you were in high school, were you aware of any type of different grouping in your classes or within classes, different abilities?
Mrs. Quarles: Until my junior year, I was in what you would call the advanced group, because I was making "A's" and "B's". Well, my senior year it just seemed like everything fell apart. The subjects, especially math, I didn't like it at all. Like I said, until the senior year it was fine, but after I was a senior, that was my first and only time in making an "F" in math.
Interviewer: But you weren't really aware of it or you did know you were being grouped?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: [To Mr. Quarles]: Were you aware of it at all?
Mr. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: Were you aware of tracking students into different curricula such as vocational or a college prep? Were you aware of that?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: How so?
Mrs. Quarles: Well, I had the college preparatory course, that's what they called it at that time. Even though I didn't have any plans of going to college, I still took that course, because I think my sister, when she attended, took the business course. I felt that I didn't want to go into any type of business course at that time, so I just took the college preparatory course, and hoped for the best.
Interviewer: So your plans for the future was just to finish high school?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: [To Mr. Quarles]: And what about you? Were you aware of any type of vocational tracking?
Mr. Quarles: Well, I just took all the general courses, but I was unaware of that vocational thing because no one explained it to us back then.
Mrs. Quarles: No one really took the time to explain it to you. As I said, at the time my class was so big, and the counselors, they probably had about one counselor. Like I said, when we first got there, there were about 700 kids in the class.
Interviewer: What did you think about this type of grouping or did you, at the time, have any thoughts about this grouping or vocational tracking?
Mrs. Quarles: No, at the time, you really didn't think about it. They gave you three choices: general, business, and college preparatory. They asked you which one you wanted to take and didn't go into detail about what it would all involve, or about what you could do or what you couldn't do.
Interviewer: [To Mr. Quarles]: You felt the same way about those three choices, and you... ?
Mr. Quarles: Took the easy one. [Laughter].
Interviewer: What did you expect your high school education to do for you?
Mr. Quarles: Prepare me to come out of here into this world, but I didn't know it was going to be this hard.
Interviewer: [To Mrs. Quarles] You were going to say something?
Mrs. Quarles: I was going to say, because we've had this discussion several times, some of the things that he could have learned in school, now he wishes that he had listened and learned and gotten a better understanding of them. Because it does help you later in life.
Interviewer: And you just feel that when you were going through school, you just, you weren't getting the sort of information that... ?
Mrs. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: Did you feel though that you got to study the subjects you wanted to study and take, or was it all just, if you picked a course you kind of went with it?
Mrs. Quarles: I think when you picked a course you went with it.
Interviewer: And that decided your classes for you?
Mrs. Quarles: Yes.
Interviewer: Can you recall what studies you felt were most valuable to you, either one of you?
Mr. Quarles: I enjoyed history and math.
Interviewer: What studies were not available to you that you might have wanted to take?
Mr. Quarles: There wouldn't be any for me because I was taking the general and the easy way out. [Laughter].
Mrs. Quarles: When I was there, they didn't have what we call now "Black History." They had plain history, which was mostly about white people [laughs]. I'm saying, ,the only blacks you learned about was George Washington Carver, or somebody like him. Those were the only ones that they would have about a paragraph about in the book.
Interviewer: Since this was really the only education you had, the very little that you had on black history, how did you think that has affected you life?
Mrs. Quarles: I found out later that there are a whole lot of people, black people, who have done a whole lot of important things. When I was in school, we didn't learn about them, and we never even heard about them. Later in life, that's how I found out about them.
Interviewer: Overall, how did you feel about your high school experience?
Mrs. Quarles: During that time, in my case, I didn't have anything to compare it to. So I was satisfied with it, once I got out of high school.
Interviewer: Now Looking back on it, how do you feel?
Mrs. Quarles: There's a lot of things that could have been taught in high school, that we could have been made aware of, and a lot of things that could have been explained better to us about what to expect later in life.
Interviewer: Do you think that was the way it was with school in general, or just with the school you attended, or just with black schools?
Mrs. Quarles: I think this was more with black schools.
Interviewer: So you feel that, with the white schools, they were getting better preparation or more information?
Mrs. Quarles: I think with the black high schools, they were just preparing you to graduate from high school. They weren't preparing you to go to college, because at ...
Mrs. Quarles: Repeat that again?
Interviewer: When you first learned about segregation and desegregation, do you remember how old you were?
Mrs. Quarles: I guess when we moved into the integrated neighborhood, when I was about 7 or 8.
Interviewer: What type of impact did that have on you at the time and now?
Mrs. Quarles: At first I didn't understand because when we first moved into the neighborhood, it was integrated. We were the first family on the block and one of my memories is that my aunt wouldn't let us play further than half way up the block. We couldn't go to the other corner because of the harassment that we received in the neighborhood.
Interviewer: So, these were some of the ways you dealt with racial tension. You said she wouldn't lot you go up to the end of the block, were there other ways you dealt with this type of tension?
Mrs. Quarles: As kids we played mostly in the yard. it was just me and my younger brother. We didn't have other playmates and... that's about the only thing, I think.
Interviewer: What type of long-term effect did this experience of racial tension have on you?
Mrs. Quarles: I don't think it had really any bad effect, because we had some good neighbors and we had some bad neighbors. My best memory is of the good neighbors, especially the lady who lived next door to us. She was very nice to us and would carry on long conversations with my aunt. She would talk to us. Compared with some of the other people in the neighborhood, they wouldn't say anything; they looked you right in the face and wouldn't say anything to you.
Interviewer: What kinds of things are most prominent in your mind about the history of segregation and desegregation?
Mrs. Quarles: I distinctly remember the harassment we received when we first moved into the neighborhood.
Mrs. Quarles: It was just another decision.
Interviewer: Right.
Mrs. Quarles: And it didn't affect me in any way.
Interviewer: Do you remember your family and friends discussing the Brown case?
Mrs. Quarles: No.
Interviewer: Based on your experience, what do you think has been the most important effect or effects of racial desegregation in the Richmond schools?
Mrs. Quarles: The chance to go to the school where you wanted to go, rather than just a black or even a white school; the chance for a better education; and the chance to mingle with other people rather than with one set of people.
Interviewer: [To Mr. Quarles]: What kinds of things are most prominent in your mind about the history of segregation and desegregation?
Mr. Quarles: When I first had to go to Chandler, the going back and forth before the School Board, the lawyers and everything, that was an experience.
Interviewer: Thinking back on it now, do you believe it is better for a young person to go to a racially segregated school or a racially integrated one?
Mr. Quarles: Integrated, because you're in together where you come in contact with people every day as opposed to being segregated.
Interviewer: Of all things that have come out of school desegregation, what do you think has been the best feature in your opinion?
Mr. Quarles: In my opinion? I don't have one about it.
Interviewer: Are there any worse features?
Mr. Quarles: I never really gave it any high thoughts.
Interviewer: Are you familiar with the Brown v. Board of Education case? Were you familiar with it at the time when, it was handed down?
[End of Transcript]
Questions
Index of Oral History Transcripts - African-American Richmond:
Educational Segregation and Desegregation.
http://www.library.vcu.edu/jbc/speccoll/vbha/
school/quarles.html
Last update 2/97 (rb)